| Archive for IMPACT! MINIATURES A forum for the discussion of board games and miniatures of the company (Impact! Miniatures) |
| GalakStarscraper |
Impact! releases second cover for Elfball gameWe've had some production issues with the qualtity of the labels for the "clean" version of our box for those that found bare stomach/legged Valkyries an inappropriate image.So Illustranger has created a second cover for Elfball (thanks Melvin!!!). This image will replace the clean version on our website (and thankful end my days of printing out 10 copies of that label just to get one nice one for the boxed set.) Enjoy (I hope!) 
Galak |
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| Lychanthrope |
Nice Job! 
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| JumpingElf |
I like comicstyle cover very much - 
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| Tarota |
Heh. Those are the two teams I ordered :). | ||||
| brownrob |
ooo!
im really chuffed that melvin took the rising sun i painted on my sumo to the next level! Looks much nicer than my painting I must admit! :D Oh he used my colour scheme too hehe I really like the art Once the rules are stable, do you plan to sell printed copies of the rules, bound up nicely, and with nice quality paper? I would for sure! Obviously the rules are still free to download, but buying a nicely bound set of rules is also nice Or maybe an option on request? I may request that in my next order if possible  :)
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| fen |
Hee, it's the Deadlings I painted taking on Rob's Divine Wind. Very cool, that's a seriously nice touch. | ||||
| pat |
greatnice job...
Pat
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| Dark Lord |
I think that should just be the cover. It's superior to the other one and has no issues attached to it.
I like it alot!
I can't answer for Galak here but I can anticipate what he's gonna say, I bet! 
I know a thing or two about printing. (I was a commercial printer for about 7 or 8 years) 1. Printing is expensive and the fewer copies you print the more expensive it is. 2. Paper is the reason printing is expensive, and it's the reason that more copies cost less than fewer. You see every time you fire up a printing press, whether it's sheet fed or web fed, digital or offset, you waste paper and you waste the same amount of paper whether you're printing 1000 or 10,000. So most of the time you're paying for them to just turn it on. And paper, my friends, is getting expensive! It's the most expensive part of printing. (This is why comic books have gone from 75 cents to $3 in the last 20 years.) The printer I worked for charged by the roll. It was a web fed press, which means the paper comes into the press on what looks like giant toilet paper rolls. Each roll would have about 18,000 copies on it. The way they made money was they charged as if they used the entire roll no matter how many copies you wanted. If you wanted 1000 copies or 10, 000 copies it cost the same. The difference was if 3 different people wanted 1000 copies of something they each paid for a roll of paper but we only used one. (this is pretty standard practice by the way...but it should be said that we were a high volume printer so printing 1000 copies was more of a hassle to us than anything else.) Throw in things like "high quality paper" heat set or laminated covers and the price just goes up and up. Getting 1000 copies in 4 color would mean Tom would have to charge more than most people are willing to pay, I bet. If the rulebook sees print I would guess it would be a black and white version on 60lb paper at best. With the possibilty of a card stock cover. And if I were Tom I wouldn't do that unless I knew I could sell most of them. Now like I said, I don't know anything about Impact so Tom may come in and correct me here, but I do know about printing. However it does seem that Elfball is getting some momentum behind it. |
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| Jonny_P |
THAT COVER IS GREAT!!!! 
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| GalakStarscraper |
At best ... the next step will probably be spiral binding the rulebook along with card stock (110 lb). front and back (and even that will require about $300 in equipment to do). I don't see moving from the paper I'm using right now which is already 28lb ... I'll check on the prices for 60lb as DL suggested.
The only way to be able to afford making Elfball is I have to print it on my own printer ... OR .... I have to be able to print say 1000 of them. Keep in mind that by printing them at home I've had the luxery of updating the rulebook to the latest edition in every set set out. If I print up 1000 of them ... I run into the same problem as the LRB (trying to learn here from other's issues). If the rulebook stays stable for a year and Elfball grows in popularity ... I'll strongly consider checking into a higher end run of rulebooks and sell them seperately. Galak |
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| Dark Lord |
Just as a quick follow up.
Here's a printing website: http://www.psprint.com/printing_products/8x11-catalogs.asp I calculated it as a 16 page, 4 color 70lb matte interior with a 100lb gloss cover cover. 125 would cost $1500 (almost $2000 after shipping I bet.) So 1500/125 = $12 just to produce it. (Also not that they will need a PDF I bet, the word file isn't gonna work so he'd have to give me more miniatures to make that  )
Now that may not sound like a lot, but when he prices them he has to assume he isn't going to sell them all. So it's not like he can price them at $15 and earn a $375 profit...it doesn't work that way. He's gotta compete with an already online version. He'd be lucky to sell half of them...so to make a profit he'd have to sell them at more than $30. And there's the catch...the higher the price, the fewer will sell. If there were a demand for 1000 copies it could probably be worth it but I don't think I would pay $30 for a rulebook I already have. 
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| Lychanthrope |
It would be less hastle for Tom and Impact! if it were the only cover. One cover instead of two to work up. I'm thinking about the box here. |
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| brownrob |
oh, i thought tom printed books from his own printer! | ||||
| GalakStarscraper |
If I ever go big time with the game ... then we'll pick a cover and my guess is that it would be the Deadling one. I like the Deadling one ... but I like the Valkyrie cover also. Galak |
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| Lychanthrope |
Are you going to do the Deadling cover for the Alternate cover on the PDF rulebook also? or leave it with the logo? | ||||
| GalakStarscraper |
Galak |
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| Darkson |
Why does Tom ned you to make a pdf from the word document? Not trying to be nasty or anything, but if you're doing the rulebook in word, there are loads of free options to make pdfs. I use PrimoPDF, that installs a virtual printer on your PC, that you can select from word and "prints" the file as a pdf that you can save. Oh, and the new covers very nice - when I get round to ordering a second set, that will be the one I get (rather than the clean version). |
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| Draco |
Yes, Simon is right. I have Paperport installed on the company computer. It would be easy to change a word document in PDF.
I also really love the Deadling cover.
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| sjmiller |
A couple of freelance jobs paid for my full version of Acrobat Professional. Sure comes in handy lately, I can tell you! It's nice to be able to create your own PDFs, or make edits/notes on someone else's work.
That's what I have been doing with the Elfball rules. I was so close to being done with the editing comments on 4.7, then out came 4.8, and 4.81, and now 4.9. Sigh, I should beg and plead with Tom to get a copy of the Word document. That way I can just track the changes and then send him what I find. |
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| GalakStarscraper |
4.9 is it for me other than fixing base typos. I'm very happy with the game and the optional rules document. We have equipment on its way to make a more professional looking rulebook and to shrink wrap the game for retailing selling by stores that carry the game. So I don't see 4.9 changing much.
Galak |
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| Dark Lord |
There are some specific settings you should have to take a PDF file to print. Simply using "print to file" isn't always enough. For one the changes in RGB and CMYK may create issues, but there are others. I don't know what PrimoPDF is or what it can do but the PDF file you send to a printer is different than the one for eBooks. Actually I tried to convince Tom he needed an Indesign file. Which if he's going to have rule printed for sale he should use because Word changes the resolution of the images. Most of them look great but that's because they were done for that size specifically. Not only that but making changes in InDesign is waaaay easier than in Word. Now that it's finalized that isn't as much of a concern tho I admit but creating a PDF with perfectly rasterized images and not approximated is gonna make the difference between an okay looking rule book and sharp looking rulebook. Look at the logo on the inside cover for an example of what I mean. It's pixelated because it's a resized GIF image used in Word. With Indesign you could use the Illustrator file with vextor graphics and it would look clean and sharp no matter how you resized, or even warped it. |
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| MadLordAnarchy |
Ignoring all the tech talk - I like this one at least I don't have to scroll down real fast when I open it at work. | ||||
| Lychanthrope |
LOL You should work at a small town library where there are 16 women and two men. I hit that next page arrow pretty fast to stay out of trouble.
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| GalakStarscraper |
Galak |
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| Illustranger |
good to hear its liked :)
while Im all for barely dressed women (I always tell everyone its an artist thing, and considering the average historical artist.. everybody accepts it ;)) I personally like this one more too. what suprises me is that the old cover causes so much fuss, everything I do and think off that has remotely sensitive issues, I double check with 3 different girls and these are not the most controversive/freeminded girls either, one even being strict christian (a strict christian artschool student tough.. so probably it doesnt count ?) but none of them found much of it offensive at all (and I dont doubt the honesty of any of them.) however, they are (like me) all halfway their twenties, not trying to be offensive on age :p, but could it be a generation issue ? nevertheless, all the offices I worked with, it was the bosses having a different scantly (or none) clad asian girl every day. so maybe I hang with the wrong crowd haha. offcourse I also live in a country were nudity can be seen quite often during the day at tv, and on outdoors advertising. however, I apologize for everyone who got in trouble over the first cover :D strangely, on the deadlings, and generally everything zombie or monstrous I draw, Ive had much more frowning upon and even some people saying that I must have a sick and twisted mind to draw something like that O_o I really use too many words to say the simplest of things >_< |
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| Dark Lord |
I don't think it's an "offensive" or "non-offensive" issue.
My sister saw the cover over Labor Day weekend. She rolled her eyes and said, "Why is it warrior women are ALWAYS half naked, or wearing some sort of iron bikini?" If you asked her if the cover was offensive she would say no. If you asked her if she would like to see something different she would say yes. So I don't think anyone's putting their wrist to their forehead and passing out in an "oh my!" sort of thing. But that sort of imagery makes the ladies crinkle up their noses and move on to another purchase. |
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| GalakStarscraper |
DL definitely has the just of it for sure.
Galak |
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