Just kicking Around Ideas

Dark Lord · Just kicking Around Ideas

Did we do this already? Anyway, rip it up and add new ideas.

mattwakeman

Instead of needing one extra success maybe you have to reroll one die which was a success (not sure if that actually changes the percentages in any way but it is a different mechanic).

Also, the oppressive heat one is maybe a bit too harsh. If one coach rolls poorly then it is game over and also it penalises developed teams much more than fresh teams. Maybe have it so that they can't use dash challenges? Or the heat saps them and they can't build up momentum? But the potential of one team losing five players and the other losing zero is just too great imo.

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Other ideas then:

Different pitches - being pushed off the edge gets you a nasty injury roll or maybe you can't get pushed off at all

Sometimes the white line works on throws...sometimes it doesn't

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On setup each coach places one player at a time rather than one team then the other

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On setup you can place one player in each circle but only one player so that when the game starts each circle has a player from each team in it

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Random player order (not sure if this is a good idea and maybe better if people want to play solo) so that each turn you have no idea as to which player will move next. This is something that I used to do in 'the other game' and it totally bought me back into it so much so that I have never played with the old rules ever again

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I feel sure more will come to me in the fullness of time...

;)

GalakStarscraper

Those are good DL ... I'd like it better if they matched the Weather Tokens we sell.

Which have Sunny instead of Windy. But otherwise I like the idea here.

I do hope to create a PDF for optional rules (like Weapons and Weather) at some point.

Galak

Darkson

Dark Lord

Really Sunny and Windy could just be a name change. Hard to throw in bright sunlight too.

Matt may have a point about that one. I was trying to come up with different weather than that other game. I kept thinking about hail and having it hit players, but went this way instead and that's why it came out the way it did.

I like Momentum idea though. What if we changed it to All Momentum earned is at -1?

So if you needed 1 success and you got 4 you would only earn 2 momentum.

-2 maybe?

GalakStarscraper

Dark Lord

You're probably right and I was also rethinking it altogether. I don't know if I want to remove something fun (Momentum) for weather effects.

However, at -1 it probably wouldn't be removed...heck it might even make it more precious!

GalakStarscraper

ohhhhhh ... reading Matt's post made me think.

DL to seperate this weather from B-B weather.

I have an idea.

Rainy ... the heavy rain is washing away most of the bounce powder on the pitch and it is now no longer working. The White powder will not bounce balls for this entire match. If the ball is thrown out or bounces out of bounds, threat it exactly as a player running out of bounds with the ball except that the referee ejects the last player to have the elfball from the game!

Galak

Dark Lord

What about the center line?

Would you then allow passes over the line? That could be kinda fun once in awhile.

GalakStarscraper

Darkson

Make it work occansionally (the rains weakened the magic, but not drained it altoghether), say a 50/50 roll.

GalakStarscraper

Darkson

Just say that there's one roll for wheter the white line works or not per players action.

So in the case above, either the line works (so the ball won't enter the goal circle) or it doesn't (regardless of how many times it crosses a white line (4 or 5 max if I'm remembering right).

Dark Lord

Even if you did it per action you'd still have a problem.

Team 1: A player throws the ball and misses and the lines don't work so it lands in the Goal hex.

Team 2 is unable to reach the goal.

Team 1: Next player moves to Goal hex and fails a pick up but now the lines are working so the ball just bounces forever?

mattwakeman

Then maybe make heavy rain the exceptional weather, X X on the die so only 1 in 36 games.

Dark Lord

More Ideas:

Speed Ball:

The game is broken into 3 Periods. Each Period has 30 minutes (15 minutes each coach). Use a Chess Clock to time this. (If you don't own a Chess Clock each player has 1 minute per turn and a limit of 15 turns...although this option wouldn't work as well IMO.)
During a turn a coach may activate as many players as he wishes as long as he doesn't activate the same player twice. SiM works normally.

This game would take 90 minutes and IMO would contain a bunch of short turn positioning turns followed by one or two longer "play maker" turns.

I know there is something similar in the Optional Rules PDF but I think this is different enough...especially since I really am thinking of the Chess Clock thing. IMO that is something really missing from fantasy sports games. It's literal clock management and would be really fun IMO.

Darkson

Or just say the rain doesn't work on the goal circle (most important circle in the game = more white powder).

I'd just rather have the lines as "uncertain" instead of "always not working".

GalakStarscraper

mattwakeman

More ideas:

When a player gains a skill he doesn't cost the team more but instead gains (automatically or just a chance?) a quirk. These are mainly minor things but the idea is that if you add three or four together then you have a player who can be a real pain. Example quirks are things like:

Has to be on the bench at start of game

Insists on taking the face off

Won't take a potion

Won't pass to a player who plays the same position

etc etc

Also I would like to see a more detailed and fun injury table. If players last long enough then I think that ageing would see players losing skills so they become just ordinary but I think that it would be more fun to see that a player broke a leg and can therefore no longer make a dash challenge or they lose an eye and are no longer as good at throwing the ball. MadLordAnarchy in...the other game...came up with a great set of rules that I think should prove some inspiration to make EBall just a little bit different. His rules can be found here.

Dark Lord

I have always been in favor of negative traits for injuries but I would only be in favor of this if the Quirks were rolled up randomly. Otherwise a Defender could take the quirk of not throwing to another Defender and it wouldn't be worth a squirt.

They also should not be available until the player has 3 or 4 skills. That way you don't have teams with 6 guys with 2 Skills that only count as one.

Lychanthrope

mattwakeman

No worries mate, as the thread is called, it is just kicking around ideas. One of the strengths of this game is that it is very balanced indeed. But to some (and I may well be one of those I admit) the lack of difference between the races may well make the teams just a little too bland. But smaller teams gives the opportunity to give the players subtle differences which make them stand out. I really don't want any game to be decided by something as small as a quirk, that is what the dice are for. But in a long term league I just think that it would add something if players could be differentiated from each other in small and interesting ways. A talented midfielder that will only learn Basic skills but never an expert one ('I am a jack of all trades you see') is, to me, annoying but in a fun way!

And for sure DL I was thinking of them being random. Having a fixed team value does wonders for balance but there is always something heartbreaking about having to release players merely to satisfy a salary cap. I know that this happens all of the time in the NFL but in my minds' eye I can see crazy teams that have been together for so long that they are like a tottering edifice of incredible ability and unbelievable neuroses!

Thinking outloud is half the fun to me I have to say.

Dark Lord

Lycan brings up a good point and matt counters with exactly what I would say.

Elfball's brilliance, in my opinion, is its balanced nature. The vanilla game is so balanced that optional rules are just really easy to make.

If you want to play the vanilla version for its balance and strategy then more power to you. By all means, I can understand your desire for that sort of game...it is after all what most of TBB and the tournament crowd seems to want.

However, there is a large population of fantasy football players who miss the wackiness and insanity Bl00d B0wl once had...and yet still understand that 3rd ed + Death Zone was a nigh unplayable game without severe house rules. I know it's a amazing that such a creature exists since in the hyperbole and black or white arena that is internet message boards one must think completely left or right or be labeled a lying hypocrite who has be hoisted by his own petard.

And yet here we are. My entire group stands as an example of several coaches who gore, violence, and random insanity and yet still want to see a Wood Elf team enter into a league of veterans without dying a slow painful death.

Also Elfball is what I call a "DIY Game." These are game that supply you with a core set of rules and lot of atmosphere. (Although I think Elfball DESPERATELY needs that atmosphere included in the rulebook!!)
Zombies!!! is the example that springs to mind currently. If you ever played a vanilla game of Zombies!!! you were probably being taught the rules.
Whether Tom intended it or not he created a set a game that is very conducive to house rules. Another thing that gets lost in the hyperbole of TBB is that rules balance isn't a black or white thing. There's a lot of bending that goes on before a set of rules is broken. Elfball's mechanics can bend pretty far without breaking!

So, go young coach and play your balanced strategy game. It is fun and it is balanced and I don't slight your for wanting to be like that!

But if I had to guess I'd guess this message board is gonna be filled with house rules and fun optional rules discussion more than anything else.

@matt: I know what you mean. The coaches in my league already took "Career Ending Injury" off the reference sheet and replaced it with "Dead as a Doornail"

They all love the salary cap for balance but every last one of them is chomping at the bit to get mean. They want chainsaws and they want bombs and I ain't joking.

As soon as we're done with this first vanilla season (which is gonna take the better part of a year) our first addition will be secret weapons rules.

GalakStarscraper

I'm working on weapons.

I'm really thinking that a mechanic similar to the Impcrusher will be the way to handle them. I'm also thinking the ideal way to do this is make these nut jobs be Hobimp mercenaries who can be hired as part of any team.

For examples ...

Chainsaw or Ball & Chain Gauntlets
Cost 10 points to add to a player.
Player gains the Impcrushers Referee ejection roll and the abilities Cheapshot, Grapple, and Bonecrusher (to show the effects of the Chainsaw)

15 points: Link Bombs to the Wizard Inferno challenge that has to be thrown to a target hex (and maybe an automatic ejection once a player goes to the infirmary (ie ... its all fun and games until someone gets a eye blown out)). This Hobimp becoming Dazed or worse represent him failing so hard the bombs go off in his own square as the focal point of the Inferno challenge.

Spring-loaded Boots
10 points for Cheapshot, Steady, Sprinter, and Slippery + Impcrusher ejection rules

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Remember ... I'm in a business and selling the minis is a vital part of my business before you comment on my post above. Some decisions are just good business.

Galak

Dark Lord

Why not just make them Skill abilities that automatically make the player's type a Cheater?

Personally, I would like to see the weapon rules really bend the heck out of Elfball's stability.

But all teams should have equal access to all weapons. As far as minis go...make the Bl00d B0wl compatible by all means...but I don't really want a hobimp on my Middle Kingdoms team. Chainsaw or not.

I'd rather a midfielder (or the most numerous position) have the option of turning into a cheater.