| Archive for IMPACT! MINIATURES A forum for the discussion of board games and miniatures of the company (Impact! Miniatures) |
| Dark Lord |
More support from Grandma Wendy!!!So Grandma Wendy can't even support the forums or the SG site?! Hooray! I think a new box MUST be on the horizon now!
So remind me again exactly how Grandma Wendy supports Bl00d B0wl?
That has to be one of the most short sighted companies in history. Well, not even short sighted...it's just plain stupidity at this point. The one thing they have for Bl00d B0wl is dedicated fan support...but the more responsibility they heap onto the shoulders of the fans the less they will be able to piss down their necks. The one asset they still have is the relentless optimism of some deluded Bl00d B0wl players who still think Grandma Wendy sells a quality product at a fair price...and they are going to lose that even. 
Personally I can't wait until they sell Bl00d B0wl to Fantasy Flight Games. I'll buy the $100 box set with all the teams in plastic minis, and the $50 expansion that adds campaign rules that aren't a bloated 60 page mess!
Burn in bankruptcy court Grandma Wendy!
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| Igor Tahavanale |
I can't tell, do you like Grandma Wendy or not? 
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| Dark Lord |
I'm just continually shocked by their slow death strategy. It makes ZERO sense to me. | ||
| Mad Jackal |
And in the time it took to read this.
Grandma Wendy probably just sold how many thousand(s) space marines ? I hate it when stupid people just continue to make money while making me un-happy. |
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| GalakStarscraper |
That announcement has been up for some time.
The forums are still active. http://forum.specialist-games.com/default.asp For now. Tom |
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| Dark Lord |
I just got an email asking me to give them permission to give my info to the new site owners.
The Forum will continue...but not because of Grandma Wendy.
*emphasis mine |
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| GalakStarscraper |
Ah ... Andy never updated my email address (despite me telling him more than once) ... probably why I did not see that email.
Tom |
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| fen |
Eh, they could have just shut down the whole thing entirely. Keeping it open is something, not much in truth but something. | ||
| sann0638 |
I got that email too. I also got a very excited one about Games Day UK saying "for the first time EVER, you can buy tickets on the door!"
As if it's a good thing that they have failed to sell out 
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| Dark Lord |
This is what I am talking about. Seriously, man think about it. What is it that Grandma Wendy is doing here? They are shrugging their shoulders and walking away. ANDY sent out some emails to try to keep people informed but I suspect that was "off the clock." They aren't doing you any favors. Why even give them any credit? That's like saying, "Well that rmugger could have stabbed me but he just stole my wallet instead. He's not that bad." But in the end I'm excited. This takes us one step closer to putting Bl00d B0wl into the hands of somebody who knows what to do with it. Both rules-wise and marketing. The current rules are just a bloated joke. I'm sorry to all the people who worked on them (I know there are blood sweat and tears in there AND SOME GOOD STUFF) but there were just too many opinions and not enough leadership. I think the LRB rulebook is bigger than Battletechs! For new players it's a nightmare, I know from experience. Too much old crap was kept around because of nostalgia and fear novelty and the rules were bent around those rusty old nuts. Mostly I blame JJ...the community and the BBRC did an amazing job free labor...but with one hand tied behind your back and 100 different voices you end up with watered down ideas and rules bloat. A new edition needs to be built from the ground up and then marketed by people who can actually market these things. Bl00d B0wl has a bigger fan base than most the games FFG has acquired and turned around...arguably maybe even bigger than Talisman. I'd love to see them get it. Hell I'd love to see the NAF, or Impact get it for that matter. As long as the rules were reset, rebuilt and tested by a team of experienced playtesters and not the rules designers. |
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| Stout Youngblood |
a bloated joke?
The current rule book is 84 pages. Of those 84: 27 pages are the basic and advanced rules. 8 are the special play cards. 6 are skill descriptions 2 are inducement and optional rules. 7 are team rosters 50 pages. That is over-stuffed? Bloated? Not to me. I have been playing the game since '87 and only since the LRB system have I been able to entice people to the game. Is it perfect, no. Nothing is. Can it be improved, maybe. I believe your dislike of Grandma Wendy has colored your opinion. |
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| Dark Lord |
I will discuss my likes and dislikes of the LRB in PM only. Sorry.
I assure you however my opinion of the rules is colored by my experiences with them. Not my opinion of Grandma Wendy's ineptitude. That is what colors my opinion of their miniatures. Oh and bloated? Yes. Okay, I won't even argue with you slimming it down to 50 pages. I'll just give it to you. I will merely point out the two most complex games on my shelf Battletech and Legions of Steel, both taking 3-4 hours to play have rule books of 45 and 35 pages respectively. Yes, a 50-80 page rulebook for a game whose direct competition (Elfball) has a rulebook of less than 25 is what I call bloated. More than 30 pages of rules have been added since 3rd Ed + DZ. But if you want to continue this in PM I am game. I can tell you why I feel the way I do and direct you to others who feel the same way. |
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| Stout Youngblood |
Ok, I believe you when you say your opinion of the rules is colored by your experiences with them. I have read your posts on this forum and TBB.
I apologize for spouting off earlier, I was out of line and it wasn't even what had me irritated. What bothered me was you comments on this forum blasting the hard work Galak did for fantasy football. Its true you put most all the blame on others but at the days end he was basically the writer of it. You don't like them, that is your right and I am not disputing that at all. I believe your judgement in posting it on this forum and the language used here was not the best. |
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| GalakStarscraper |
Okay ... this could get bad so I'm stopping it before it does.
The biggest item here of note ... is yes I did write most of the LRB 5.0 and I'm pretty happy with it as a whole with a few exceptions. So problem is if the NAF or Impact! buys it ... I'm 99% sure the rules would be left alone (in fact I've been suggesting LRB 6.0 should be the last edition of change based on the current environment) ... and I think Grandma Wendy will request it will be the last edition for some time. And if someone else bought it ... I'm doubtful they would change the rules for fear of losing the support the game currently had. So I just don't see a rewrite happening. This is not meant as a slam to DL AT ALL. I'm more stating the facts of the situation. I'm not even sure LRB 6.0 will definitely happen. But I'm fine if its it for rule changes. My last note here is just another of fact:
3rd edition + Death Zone (I just went and counted): 50 pages of rules and team lists total. HOWEVER ... it does NOT include the text of the special play cards or the Star Player stats. LRB 5.0 handbook: 59 pages of rules and team lists (Stout I counted pages 2-34, 56-79, and 2 for the Stars Player stats). HOWEVER ... it DOES include the special play card and Star Player text which is 10 pages. Lose that (since its not in 3rd ED + DZ) and you are at 49 pages. So the LRB 5.0 has 1 less page of rules than 3rd edition + Death Zone. However ... here is the final kicker. It has 9 more teams (12 vs 21). 3 teams are listed on each page. So remove those 3 pages of new teams to make the two rulebooks apples to apples comparisions (ie compareable information on a 1 to 1 basis). 3rd edition + Death Zone = 50 pages of rules LRB 5.0 = 46 pages of rules IE ... the rules have actually slimmed down. I wanted to point this out because Jervis told me the LRB 5.0 was not finished in his opinion until I could fit all the LRB 5.0 rules in LESS space than the matching rules for 3rd edition. So I already knew the page count was less because I had to show JJ that it was less before he kept looking for the next item to trim. The LRB 1.0 was horribly bloated but that was LRB 1.0. Keep in mind that the LRB 1.0 handbook was 84 pages long total. I had to make the LRB 5.0 handbook 84 pages long exactly as well per Jervis (for printing reasons) AND I had to put in 10 new pages of card/star player text, 3 new pages for 9 new teams, and information for 9 new team background stories in as well. The LRB 5.0 Handbook is what you can download for free from the fantasy football page of the US G-W main site (www.games-workshop.com). The final LRB 5.0's 84 pages were 59 pages of rules (as shown above) and 25 pages of cover images, index and background information on the game and teams. 84 = 80 paper pages and a front and back cover (4 pages total). Final note on trimming stuff ... 3rd ED + DZ had 33 pages of cover images, index, and background information in a 1:1 comparison format to LRB 5.0 Handbook which has 25 pages of this. So the final analysis page to page 1:1 is: 3rd ED + DZ = 83 pages (50+33 ... 1:1 comparison count) LRB 5.0 Handbook = 71 pages (46+25 ... 1:1 comparison count) + 10 pages of text from cards in the 3rd ED + DZ box now in LRB 5.0 pages + 3 extra pages for 9 new teams So to the point of bloat ... it didn't happen. I'm not arguing from a point of belief or theory ... all I'm trying to do is state facts. ==== I understand DL's position on THAT game. But surely DL ... you got to realize that after almost 4000 hours I've spent working on the LRB 5.0/6.0 rules ... my belief that even with JJ's rules that I'm going to believe a full rewrite is needed would be minimal. And the fact is if Impact! bought B-B ... I wouldn't change B-B at all at this point (especially if the voting for the last set of changes for LRB 6.0 happens as I hope they will next month). Also having talked to the NAF ... they'd like nothing more than a stable ruleset. Change to the rules changes the way the NAF works ... so they'd love stability as well. Maybe a 3rd party would change things ... but I just don't see them doing it when if they polled the larger community ... such a small % would be asking for it (based on polls I've seen asking which edition of B-B is best). ESPECIALLY when the Xbox/DS/PC game is going to be about 97%ish true to playing LRB 5.0. Just too much water behind the dam to rebuild said dam. I love your love of Elfball DL ... you've been a big help to me the last year. Your B-B dream is just not going to happen even if Grandma Wendy sells the company (IN MY OPINION). Sorry mate. Stick with Elfball ... its a better game anyway! ===== AS TO THE ORIGINAL POST that DL made. DL I agree that G-W getting rid of ALL of its forums is just nuts. We have grown BECAUSE of our forum members not in spite of them. It is INDEED a true error on G-W's part that they have found that their fans are not a resource and its one more step by them in the wrong direction. It will be interesting to see what happens with fantasy football with no plastic teams coming and metal teams going up 33% in price on their site in a few short weeks. So let me be clear DL ... I'm AGREEING with you on your first post. 
====== In the interest of fairness .... DL since I'm addressing you directly ... feel free to PM me a response and I'll post it directly to this thread and you'll have the last word. I in no way shape or form am trying to stop you from being able to voice your opinion. Tom |
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| GalakStarscraper |
Dark Lord's final post on this topic:
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| Darkson |
Unfortunately, you are incorrect. Originally, they were going to move the forums, lock, stock and barrel a few months ago with an opt-out option, but Grandma Wendy Legal decided there might be a privacy issue with transferring email addresses, so the moves been put back a little, whilst they made an opt-in option. This is NOT Andy working off the clock. |
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| Dark Lord |
Well...that's not really much better is it?
After talking to Tom at Gencon about Grandma Wendy's lawyers, I have to wonder if they spent as much money on Bl00d B0wl figs and promoting said Bl00d Bowl figs as they do on watching other people do it...would Impact even exist?
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| bound for glory |
i really like FF. it seems to me that its not "hip" to like FF anymore.guess i've been lucky to belong to a long running league. friends having fun. i do like what tom has done with elf ball, but i've got 20+ guys who play FF 2 times a year for 8 weeks. we have almost out grown my basement, and we are talking to a local fire dept. about renting every saturday night(we play every saturday, 6pm to 11pm, 2 games each a nigh). i for one hope some day Grandma Wendy pulls thier heads out and does something really positive for the game...i won't hold my breath 
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