Razorback question

GalakStarscraper · Razorback question

So we have the Swinetaur coming out.

And we have the tough looking like Razorback dudes.

So here's my question ...

If I had Phil sculpt up 4 new razorbacks that were like:

1) On a pogo stick
2) With some type of device that goes boom
3) with a chainsaw
4) with roller skates / balls on chains from both wrists

Do you think folks would buy it? This is a serious question from me.

(I'd make a revised Razorback roster for Street Brawl to use these players).

Galak

Xtreme

I'd like to have a Razorback with a ballzooka, but its not on your list.
Of the four you have listed i'd be interested in maybe two.

bouncergriim

Pogo sticks and roller skates don't make much sense being that they are from the marshland. When would they practice and where?

I like explody things though.

maybe a flame weapon. And chainsaws are always such fun.

Igor Tahavanale

GalakStarscraper

Norse

Hi Tom,

I'm in favour of doing something different with the RB roster but I'm not sure if I really want to look as if we are copying existing teams for other games...

I'm sure we could have a lot of fun doing ninja swine with nunchukkas and katanas if we felt like it.. why not think outside the box a little and come up with some new crazy ideas.. better to lead than to follow..

phil

bouncergriim

That could be cool, have the razor backs be more primal even. Maybe balls and chains and other melee weapons. Save technology for gnomes and dwarveses.

Norse

GalakStarscraper

I'll think about this.

It would be a longer term thing and something I wouldn't want Phil to work on until I had a better idea exactly what we had in mind.

Galak

lawquoter

Illustranger

can one of them get glasses like bebop ? :D

GalakStarscraper

Phil don't sculpt anything. (guys we pay Phil these days per a sculpt so its not just let's see what Phil dreams up

I cannot afford that

)

Its just throwing out that we now have a big guy that could work with the Razorbacks so see what thoughts he would generate.

Galak

Dark Lord

I like the idea of spring shoes...might be hard to sculpt convincingly though...but maybe not.

I agree with Norse, don't just copy the Grandma Wendy weapons. Think along the lines of the big hamster ball people were talking about for a death roller.

Ball & Chain could be a really primal looking flail (like the Witch King's flail in the RotK movie), or it could be a rabid poodle on a leash...something crazy.

I have a mini from long ago house rules for secret weapons where I was running a Chaos team with a Nergal theme. The Beastmen were plague bearers and the Ball & Chain guy had a Nurgling on a chain. I never got to it but I planned on adding foam to its mouth.

What about a rocketpack to go with the roller skates? Or just rocket skates?

Or in the Acme line of thinking, how about a big bat suit?

Watch some Looney Toons, Tom.

Xtreme

I'd rather they went with the primal train of thought, rather then the silly cartoon ideas.

Dark Lord

Lychanthrope

You're back to cartoons again DL. I'm with Xtreme. I like the Razorback team idea. It's one draw back has always been only two figs. With the possiblity of adding more minis without making the team comedy relief the team moves up on my to buy list. Wild boars are very dangerous. This team could be sweet. Just my 2 cents. The Impact! boys will do what works for the company and I'll still enjoy the game. there are lots of good teams here.

GalakStarscraper

phil

Norse

thanks a bunch!

Mephisto

I would like to see more razorbacks miniatures, but not with secret weapons. What about giving them more normal positionals? Or making more hunters and mids?

GalakStarscraper

Dark Lord

Hmmn. I have to say sometimes I like having duplicates of the same position. My preference goes back and forth but sometimes I like to have the minis be more static and 'game piece like' and for other teams I prefer them to be more representational.

But I guess if you make enough pieces for each roster slot then I could have either flavor.

Mephisto

Well, I like your idea, but I think it's not bad when you have two minis repeated... the problem is having only one miniature for 6 to be represented like the razorbacks, gnolls, desert winds...

mattwakeman

A vote for more minis for the same position rather than changing the rooster. The fact that some teams have fewer positions is what gives them their character.

Dark Lord

Valen

Dark Lord

Shouldn't there be a suitably "piggy" way of doing secret weapons?

Can't think of anything off hand but maybe that's the key? What sort of weapons would anthropomorphic boars use?

Apples? Bacon? hmmnnnn......

Valen

I like the way your thinking DL, but like you I dont really have any good ideas on what the weapons should be

lawquoter

Valen

Now that I like, useless I ask you, oi give me your wallet

phil

secret weapons should never, ever be just melee weapons, that's severely lacking in the right vibe for fantasy football...

apple bombs, slop cannons, flying suit (when pigs...), sausage guns, that sort of thing.

Be clever, not boring.

I won't sculpt boring :P

Valen

Torg

Personally I never liked the idea of wweapons in FF, just because FF does it, doesn't mean EB should do it.

If you want fantasy races using weapons on a pitch, do a pitfighter version of EB, more gladiatorial, last team standing wins.

Just a thought.

lawquoter

Darkson

Gladitorial Elfball - that idea I like....

Draco

Large insects, like wasps, bees and ants would be cool and colourfull.

Also turtels might be nice, with different shields.

GalakStarscraper

Dark Lord

So will the Swinetaur be added to the Razorback's roster?

One of our coaches plays Razorbacks and I'm sure he would be interested in its stats, and the mini for that matter.

Changed to:
0-4 Hunters

0-2 Swinetaurs? (Cyclops stats?)

???

Dark Lord

No answer on this?

What's up?

GalakStarscraper

Dark Lord

Think pigs...

Stubborn

Eat anything

Delicious...oops.

Clever and tricky (anyone who has been on a farm can attest to this...never turn your back on a pig!)

And don't forget about greased pigs!

Have you thought about not giving them "big guy" stats and letting them be ball handlers?

0-2 Swinetaur: 5 4 2 4 2 4

I think two of those would be fun. They have enough skill to handle the ball but they aren't doing lots of tricks with it. They aren't gonna be throwing tackles around and hurting people...but then again laying a hand on them will be like catching a greased pig.

They would be really good fullbacks IMO...but then again with only 5 movement they aren't scoring demons either.

Write some fluff that says they oil themselves up with imp fat before the match.

bouncergriim

I prefer
6 5 3 2 2 3 Monster

This makes him fast, but not a tackler, something new to the game.

Dark Lord

Not a tackler? He has average tackle and super might with 6 Jog.

Gimmee two of those and I wouldn't need to field anyone except a midfielder to take the face off.

Plus you're breaking the Might + Skill should be <= 6.

GalakStarscraper

DL ... go check your Gmail.

Galak

bouncergriim

Opps, I just think he should be a monster with 5 might and 6 jog, tweak everything else however you like. I just would like to see a fast monster. You could give him 2 tackle and 1 skill for all I care, maybe some extra dodge to make him like a greased pig.

He is strong and fast, but he is tough to tackle because of his grease and really can't pick up the ball well either.

maybe 6 5 2 3 1 4 I know this breaks the dodge might rule. I would like to see other suggestions though... I just really like the idea of a fast monster type. I am not opposed to changes to this, but I really like the 6 jog.

Dark Lord

bouncergriim

I think so, there have been many times that I wanted to be able to do more/go farther and 1 jog can suprizingly open up more opportunities than just 5. I have seen a huge difference in what my safeties (jog 7) do compared to my other players with the gnolls. I end up using the safeties as runners alot of the time, they have scored at least half of my total goals in 5 games or so.

I would rather have 6 jog and push an opponent to free my self up than 4 dodge and only 5 jog. But this is just my opinion. Also no other monster has 6 jog so that is why I like it.

Dark Lord

A shove to free up movement is essentially going to cost 2 paces (1 for the shove and then 1 to move) vs. a dodge which would get you the same result in one.

I can't see your logic here, maybe it's two different styles of play?

GalakStarscraper

My problem here DL is that I was thinking of something more along the lines of what bouncergrim was suggesting. A fast strong creature.

Something like:
Jog - 6
Might - 5
Tackle - 3
Dodge - 3
Skill - 1
Grit - 3

With the acknowledgement that this player would have the same issue the Contraption and Tantor have with Might+Dodge=8.

But with the above ... I'd be okay with the roster being 0-5 of both Midfielders and Hunters with 0-2 Swinetaur. And do think you'll get the greased pig effect between the Might and the Dodge scores totaling 8.

Galak

Dark Lord

On a team with only one position that has a skill of 3 I would never field that guy.

He's a monster so can't be in the face off, so his might is worthless there. With a skill of 1 he can't handle the ball so why does he need to dodge? And with dodge 3 he's no harder to take down than any other monster (well almost) but because of his Grit he's easier to hurt.

All he's gonna do is shove people...he has no other purpose on the Razorback team. Hunters are better hitters, and Midfielders are better ball handlers.

Sure, he's got the potential to be a "greased pig" but that's assuming there's a reason to chase him.
Why would your players be chasing him? I'd let my opponent using him waste his 6 Jog shoving me 3 times. Or just plant an Ogre on him and watch him either fail the shoves, or waste a turn to dodge away.

He's not a greased pig, he's a herder. A greased pig only has value when there's a reason to catch it.

bouncergriim

I could see him as a tool for pushing open holes and covering people. He would be a good to to "unposition" an opponent from a key area. Also would be good (dervish like) at knocking people out of the circle or into the goal.

He can't tackle very well or handle the ball. But I like a mobile pusher that can bring a new stat line to the game.

GalakStarscraper

Plus ... I've had a lot of good feedback from Mad Jackal on the value of the Dryads to open up plays with shoves. So a key player that is good at Shoving is not an undervalued player to set up plays.

Galak

Dark Lord

But the player I created could do that and more.

But, I also never denied the guy would be good at shoving. Sure he would but I don't see how that fits well with a Hunter/Midfielder team.

There's only two positions on the team and the jobs aren't exactly rigidly defined. IMO adding a player that is only good at shoving to a team that is this generalized makes the player less useful at his specialization.

I agree that shoving is useful for setting up plays...but not when the player isn't capable of making those plays. What good does it do to shove a player back when they can just cut around you and move back to where they were in the next turn?

I'd rather send the hunters in to take them down, and still be able to get the ball that comes loose to a midfielder.
And more importantly (to me at least) isn't just another Ogre, Cyclops, Troll, Tantor clone "Big Guy" I'd be more interested in players like the Widowmaker than players like the Ogre. (especially when that character is just another midfielder...a midfielder without any Skill.)

Sorry but when the highest Skill I have is 3, I'm not wasting one of my 6 precious slots on a player who can't handle the ball, can't tackle better than my hunters, is just as slow as the rest of the team and is just as easy to hurt too...oh and can't even win the face off for me.

You compared him to the Dervish but I think if you look at the Dervish's Jog 7 and Grit of 5 you'll see the Swinetaur is lacking. He's slower and easier to hurt. He'd be no better at defending the goal than a midfielder, and worse than a hunter. If you send him forward on offense he's worse at tackling than a hunter and only as good at dodging as a midfielder. (I don't call Midfielder fast either)

I just can't see replacing a Hunter with him, a hunter can get the ball to my play makers. And I certainly wouldn't take 2 points of skill from my Midfielders and put it on Might. Not on Razorbacks!

But that's fine. I guess we need another Troll, Ogre, Tantor, Cyclops, Big Guy clone

...wake me up when something original comes along.

I don't mean to sound snarky but I'd rather see a new monster that was Walter Payton instead of Refrigerator Perry. We've had The Fridge forty times already.

Dark Lord

By the way, I'm not suggesting mine is the only statline acceptable to me...just that I see no point in the two others suggested when you could just use the Ogre/Cyclops numbers for a better result.

I was hoping for something besides a watered down version of what we already have.

GalakStarscraper

I'll think about it DL. Got too much happening hear to really sit down and look over your proposal.

Your league is a good testing ground. Try putting 2 of your version of this guy, 2 Hunters, and 2 Midfielders on the pitch and tell me what happens please.

Galak

Dark Lord

Okay...not trying to be a bully about it tho.

When he be in the store? Our next league day is Feb 17th(? ish).

We have plenty of Morgs and Gnashracks to use as proxies if he won't be ready by then.

GalakStarscraper

Dark Lord

Oh, I thought with no pics it was just pre order.

GalakStarscraper

Dark Lord

I see.

bouncergriim

I see your points DL, I just thought the swinetaur was a change in my opinion. I see the other monsters as valuable, but thought he would be different. I wish I had more guys around here to play. I am still fairly new at this. The idea of a fast monster sounds cool to me. Wish I had a small league to try to play test it on.

But just as a further note. The Razors already are a different team than most, those 6 hunters are intimidating and their makeup as a team is different than any other team.

I am interested to see how this shapes up. I won't be disappointed any way it goes. But I still want to see the 5 mid, 5 hunters on the roster.

Dark Lord

Don't get me wrong I see the other monsters as valuable. (It's always like this on the internet...sigh. You either love or hate, do or don't) An Ogre on the Razorbacks would be very valuable and very worth giving up a hunter for...but that's because he's a super-hunter. And like I said, the Swinetaur could be a valuable player; I just don't see it on the Razorbacks team.

I'm not even that opposed to what you guys said at all, just that I really want to see Elfball break away from the "BIg Guy" type mentality that Bl00d Bowl has. (Meaning each big guy is essentially a big brute who hits hard but doesn't handle the ball)

IMO Elfball can break out of that easily and the Widowmaker is proof. A big shoving type guy (IE Jog 7 and Might 5) would be really cool! And I would have no end to the pleasure of knocking people out of bounds with him...it's just that on a Razorback team there is very little ball handling to begin with. Removing even more to place a monster on the pitch is a tough sell for me...and what I saw just wasn't worth it. I mean it was just a lineman.

GalakStarscraper

As I said DL ... I was serious ... try out 2 of each type on the pitch and let me know what you thought of it. Just be honest with yourself that if its too good you'll be willing to admit.

That's the most difficult of any playtester who floats his own idea is to admit when it didn't work. But I think you'd have that ability.

Galak

Dark Lord

Well since I won't be using it on my team it will be easier.

The Warden

I may be wrong but it sounds like to me that this player just does not fit your style of play DL. Nothing wrong with that.

But why can't it still be made an option for others who want play razorbacks different than you do?

Warden

Dark Lord

I don't play the Razorbacks, nor did I say it shouldn't be allowed because people play differently than me.

I said it was no different than any other monster IN MY OPINION. Specifically because I felt Jog 5 and Might & Dodge 4 made for a faster player than a polayer with Jog 6, Might 5 and Dodge 2 or 3...and a crappy Grit. Like I said, that player could maybe move around but for what purpose? I don't see it, if you do, then inform me...don't tell me I'm saying you can't do this or that.

As far as his use on the team I simply said that I would never field the player IF I were a Razorback coach.

If you would, then more power to you. I don't see the value of him VERSUS a Midfielder or Hunter on a team where only 1 position has a Skill of 3. So if you look all of that was what I would do with this player as a Razorback coach. I didn't speak for anyone else, not even the RB coach in my league.

Why can't I say that?

bouncergriim

Now that you have made the swinetaur offical, are you going to make a new razorback team pack on the website?

GalakStarscraper

Miyuso

Topic has changed a fair bit from where it started, but this was what I thought reading the new player bit at the start.

You mentioned special weapons style players, and mentioned a Pogo stick. What sort of rules did you have in mind for this? Reason I ask, is because I beleive similar rules would be better served with wings.

When I say wings, I don't mean in the traditional sence, i.e the creatures own wings. I more mean 2 wings that are strapped to the arms of the player. Something that looks rough, but functional. Doesn't give full flight, but enough of a boost to jump over players. The player would need to be a striker imo

Scow:

Scows are the runts of the hunter class. Generally too small to protect the settlement, they act as lookouts and messengers. When required they also scout any threats and make use of the wooden wings thier lightweight frames affords them. While these wings don't offer extended flight, they give just enough of a lift to be useful

Rules for Jumping
Dodge test = Highest Tackle -1, +1 for each extra opp facing, flop means you fall in the hex you are in and are dazed, failing number of successes either in hex existing down, or in leap to hex dazed or down, and successful means you land on your feet. I'm not sure if you'd want to add extra negatives if any opposing player is facing the Hex you are landing in.

Brad

SillySod

Wings are nice, personally when I read this I thought "stilts"... which is a pretty odd secret weapon, probably too odd

Still, stilts might have potential if you an think of interesting rules for them.

If anyone is wondering why the hell I thought of stilts.... Razorbacks live in swamp or marshland dont they? Well stilts were originally invented by the Romans who found themselves unable to cross swamps in britain without being ambushed and butchered by the locals. Apparently stilts make it easier (

I was suprised too) to cross marshland as well as giving the Romans a better line of sight to spot ambushes from. Just figured that some enterprising pigs might have hit upon this inovation too

Stout Youngblood

I don't know since stilts never worked for Sylvester the cat or Wile E. Coyote!

NightDragon

I would buy any new Razorbacks you produce. Atm they are going to be the Hobgobs for my CD team and I am getting 3 of one and 4 of the other, but ideally I would like 7 individual Razors.

Thom

Perhaps spring shoes and/or roller skates, but honestly I would be happy with any new poses. If you make some with weapons then maybe we could have an extra arm without a weapon too?

bound for glory

i'd like to see some positional guys. bazoka is cool.