bouncergriim
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Rules ClarificationsOkay I taught my friend to play elfball last night, on my modified board and had a few questions that needed clarification.
1. IF you use your last point of jog to do an action such as pick up the ball do you still get a free action, like a push or tackle?
2. When can you reposition the direction your player is facing?
a. I threw the ball on my last possible action (even including using a dash) and it was succcessfully caught, can I then turn a round in the same hex to face an opposing defender?
b. IF I threw the ball and it was a SiM, am I stuck facing that direction or can I reface before my opponent gets my momentum?
3. To get the -1 success modifier to hitting an opponent I need a player from my team to be facing my player who is hitting the opponent? (not like fantasy football where I need my "assist" to be facing the opponent)
4. Can you do a shove challenge on an opponent who cannot go anywhere (has someone behind them blocking the direction of shove), I though of doing this to gain momentum with an ogre?
5. If I use momentum to reroll some dice and end up with more successes than I needed do I get new momentum from these even though I used momentum to get them.... Example I roll a 5, 5, 1, 1 and have two momentum and only needed 1 success. I used 2 momentum and hope to get more... I replace the 1, 1 with a 1, 4,..5. so the total is 5,5,1,4,5 = three successes one to succeed and 2 turn back into momentum?
6. Can I use momentum to reroll dice from conditional successes? I have a monster with skill one trying to catch the ball. He rolls one dice and gets 4, rolls again, gets 4, rolls again gets 1. So 4,4,1 but he needed two successes, can I use 1 momentum to just reroll the 1?
7. Do you have to announce the hex you are disengaging to?
I think that is it for now as far as questions go.
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Lines
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| Quote: | 2. When can you reposition the direction your player is facing?
a. I threw the ball on my last possible action (even including using a dash) and it was succcessfully caught, can I then turn a round in the same hex to face an opposing defender?
b. IF I threw the ball and it was a SiM, am I stuck facing that direction or can I reface before my opponent gets my momentum? |
Rulebook: "Whenever a player starts or finishes any move, challenge or action, you must face the eyes of the player..."
Both examples (a and b) finish your action but you´re still allowed to set the facing of your player as the last possible thing to do.
| Quote: | 3. To get the -1 success modifier to hitting an opponent I need a player from my team to be facing my player who is hitting the opponent? (not like fantasy football where I need my "assist" to be facing the opponent)
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That´s a typo we had in there for a short time...
Modifiers in V4.9 of the rulebook now say: "Each adjacent standing teammate forward facing your opponent" for impact and tackle challenges.
| Quote: | | 4. Can you do a shove challenge on an opponent who cannot go anywhere (has someone behind them blocking the direction of shove), I though of doing this to gain momentum with an ogre? |
No, you´re not allowed ro shove if the field behind the targeted player is blocked.
Rulebook: "A standing player may attempt a Shove challenge... to move the opponent one hex in a straight line if no other player is in that hex."
| Quote: | | 5. If I use momentum to reroll some dice and end up with more successes than I needed do I get new momentum from these |
Yes.
| Quote: | | 6. Can I use momentum to reroll dice from conditional successes? |
Yes.
| Quote: | | 7. Do you have to announce the hex you are disengaging to? |
No.
| Quote: | | 1. IF you use your last point of jog to do an action such as pick up the ball do you still get a free action, like a push or tackle? |
Hmm, not sure on this one. I know how I interpret the rules, but reading the part again and again I not really sure at all... 
Guess we need Tom here....
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bouncergriim
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Thanks for the replies, one more question, pretty sure I know the answer but I am just checking.
| Quote: | Quote:
2. When can you reposition the direction your player is facing?
a. I threw the ball on my last possible action (even including using a dash) and it was succcessfully caught, can I then turn a round in the same hex to face an opposing defender?
b. IF I threw the ball and it was a SiM, am I stuck facing that direction or can I reface before my opponent gets my momentum?
Rulebook: "Whenever a player starts or finishes any move, challenge or action, you must face the eyes of the player..."
Both examples (a and b) finish your action but you´re still allowed to set the facing of your player as the last possible thing to do.
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So does this mean if you catch or intercept the ball (a challenge) or even if you fail but are still standing you can face your player which ever way you want?
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Mad Jackal
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Re: Rules Clarifications | bouncergriim wrote: | Okay I taught my friend to play elfball last night, on my modified board and had a few questions that needed clarification.
1. IF you use your last point of jog to do an action such as pick up the ball do you still get a free action, like a push or tackle?
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If you used your last point of jog to pick up. Then yes, you can free action to throw, push or tackle. If you used your last point of jog to move to the square, then no, you used your free action to pick up the ball.
Yes with facing after any challenge , including catch or intercept. Unless there is a clarification that needs added. Even if failed.
The rest it appears to me Lines got right.
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Lines
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| Quote: | | If you used your last point of jog to pick up. Then yes, you can free action to throw, push or tackle. If you used your last point of jog to move to the square, then no, you used your free action to pick up the ball. |
Sounds right to me.
Reading the rules again I think you could also write:
"After ending your regular action you may perform a cost-free challange" or
"After having all points of jog used up you may perform a cost-free challange"
or
"All players have jog +1 but may only spend their last jog point for a challenge, not to move..."
Am I right on these ones?
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GalakStarscraper
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| Lines wrote: | | "All players have jog +1 but may only spend their last jog point for a challenge, not to move..." |
In effect this is correct ... but why do I think it would create more questions than the current text?
Galak
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Lines
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| Quote: | | So does this mean if you catch or intercept the ball (a challenge) or even if you fail but are still standing you can face your player which ever way you want? |
You can only change the facing of the player that performes the action of the turn (number of challenges and moves).
An interception is a challenge by a player NOT taking the action of the current turn.
So you may not change the faving of the intercepting player. The same with the catching player if it is not the one that threw the ball (the ball is bouncing back to the thrower).
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Lines
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| Quote: | | In effect this is correct ... but why do I think it would create more questions than the current text? |
It WOULD create more questions, but how about my second version:
"After having used up all points of jog you may perform one cost-free challange"
or something like this.
For me this would be clearer.
(Edited)
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GalakStarscraper
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| Lines wrote: | | Quote: | | So does this mean if you catch or intercept the ball (a challenge) or even if you fail but are still standing you can face your player which ever way you want? |
You can only change the facing of the player that performes the action of the turn (number of challenges and moves).
An interception is a challenge by a player NOT taking the action of the current turn.
So you may not change the faving of the intercepting player. The same with the catching player if it is not the one that threw the ball (the ball is bouncing back to the thrower). |
Lines is correct
Galak
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bouncergriim
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one other thing I noticed that might seem a little unclear, then again to most it might not (or I might have over looked something):
Impact challenges don't cost jog, but if you fail it it costs an additional jog to do anything. Tackle does cost 1 jog. I think it could be clearer or illustrated in an example or something.
This is what I think it means you choose to tackle, have to spend a jog to tackle, however you need to roll an impact because your opponent is mighter, you don't get enough successes. Now to do anything else you need to use another jog. So you have used 2 jog on this challenge inorder to do anything after the failed impact/tackle.
Also can you choose to intentionally walk out of bounds? I could see someone wanting to do this to bring in a player that they need but couldn't set up because of recovery rules and you didn't want to set up one short.
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Lines
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| Quote: | | Also can you choose to intentionally walk out of bounds? |
Yes. This question came up before and Tom allowed it. It´s also a smart way to get the ball to a player standing on the center dot. 
Just walk out of bounds with your ball carrier.
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GalakStarscraper
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| bouncergriim wrote: | | So you have used 2 jog on this challenge inorder to do anything after the failed impact/tackle. |
You don't pay Jog until you do the challenge. No Tackle challenge = no jog paid. So a failed Tackle challenge due to a failed Impact challenge costs 1 Jog total (if you keep going)
A literal read of the rules should yield this (ie no clarification needed imo)
Yes you can run out of bounds ... it is covered in the referee rules.
Galak
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bouncergriim
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Thanks, thats how I read it but I thought you might have intended it hte other way.
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GrumpyGrizzly
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Got a question about Keg use order that came up in our game today:
If a person has no momentum, it's a pretty easy thing. If the roll got 1 success or more, a keg can be used.
BUT things get more complicated with momentum. At what point is the keg actually used?
Case A:
Moving team has one momentum and gets 1 success.
The way we have been playing it is that the keg can only be used after all rerolls are finished. I.e. you can't decide to use the keg, then reroll a dice (because then you could get 0 or a flop and then the keg use is not legal)
Case B:
Opposing team has the one momentum, moving team gets the 1 success.
We have been playing this that the opposing team decides if the use the reroll or not to make them reroll the success, THEN the moving team can use the keg if the total result is still at least 1 success.
Is this the way you intended it? Using a keg occurs after all rerolls from both sides, or did you intent the keg to be used and then rerolls as needed?
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GalakStarscraper
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I would argue that keg uses happens after all the momentum factors is used. The roll is "finished" until all momentum occurs.
Galak
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bouncergriim
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Two questions, just want to make sure I am intepreting this correctly...
If I have a player who is down (a striker, grit2) and he has an opponent facing him, I may spend 2 jog to help me get up (-2 to the number of successes). But I have to spend two jog not one right?
Secondly, if I ShiM (flop) a throw to a player standing beside the thrower, and have 3 momentum, but my own player catches the ball with 3 extra success... How many Momentum counters does my opponent earn? (I assume it is only 3, because the flop ended the action thus ending the ability to earn Momentum)
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GalakStarscraper
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| bouncergriim wrote: | Two questions, just want to make sure I am intepreting this correctly...
If I have a player who is down (a striker, grit2) and he has an opponent facing him, I may spend 2 jog to help me get up (-2 to the number of successes). But I have to spend two jog not one right? |
Correct you have to spend two jog.
| Quote: | | Secondly, if I ShiM (flop) a throw to a player standing beside the thrower, and have 3 momentum, but my own player catches the ball with 3 extra success... How many Momentum counters does my opponent earn? (I assume it is only 3, because the flop ended the action thus ending the ability to earn Momentum) |
Correct it would be 3 for the reason you gave.
Galak
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Lines
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| Quote: | | If I have a player who is down (a striker, grit2) and he has an opponent facing him, I may spend 2 jog to help me get up (-2 to the number of successes). But I have to spend two jog not one right? |
Errr, maybe I´m misinterpreting the question. But as far as I know you have to spend 3 points in total. One for the get-up challenge and 2 ADDITIONAL points to improve get-up chances.
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bouncergriim
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Yes that is what I meant. The first one was implied. I was focusing on modifiers.
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bouncergriim
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Couple of things I noticed in 4.91
pg. 5 the hypertext link is invalid (instead of a url to this forum)
pg. 18 should read these 4 items not these three in regards to the extra ways to get experience points.
Also these are a few unclear rule situations as I see them.
1. Can a sprinter use regular dash instead of ability. Cause regular dash only requires one success whereas using sprint the first time requires two successes (due to the one more success than dash challenge rule). Also, a friend and I were debating the clarity of whether or not a player could sprint and still use a regular dash. Though I think it is pretty clear.
2. Can a bankshot be used on a rebound? So the thrower throws it at the wall (that was his throw and he can choose the angle and add or subtract one) if that then makes it hit another white line can he use bankshot again?
3. Why isn't the contraption a monster? I ask this with regards to face off, is it not because it has to roll after every action it takes regardless?
Other wise it could be changed in the rules that the ref will never allow a player with might 5 in the faceoff circle (even if this is a result of a magic potion)
4. How do skills like goalie, ruthless, beeline, swarm, and teammate work. I ask this with regards to doing things that increase momentum between uses of these skills. I was thinking you might make these useable only after jog is exhausted, but before any dashes (this though limits the use of things like teammate or ruthless as a way to get to an opponent to hit them, but the dash might allow that) and is there any limit on the number of times these could be used in a turn
5. Can taunt be used against the same opponent twice, if the first time failed?
6. Can any skill be used in the face off choice or can none? Lets say my striker picks up the ball, but has to use agile to reroll it to get the success, then he ends up with 2 momentum from extra successes, can he then use burst to move into the opponents field if the opponent was down due to flopping the face off?
7 building on #6, is the faceoff defined as an action, is the bonus choice defined as a separate action, and finally is the first real turn (action) by the winning faceoff time the same or a different action? This all boils down to is when and how many times may I use a skill in this first situation. Here, think about buff: Use buff to win faceoff, can I use it again to push the guy in my bonus choice, and yet again in my real turn to push him?
I will probably have more questions, but these are all that I have listed thus far.
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GalakStarscraper
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| bouncergriim wrote: | Couple of things I noticed in 4.91
3. Why isn't the contraption a monster? |
Huh ... it is a monster ... isn't it???
Galak
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bouncergriim
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in the extra rules it says type: NONE.
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GalakStarscraper
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| bouncergriim wrote: |
1. Can a sprinter use regular dash instead of ability. Cause regular dash only requires one success whereas using sprint the first time requires two successes (due to the one more success than dash challenge rule). Also, a friend and I were debating the clarity of whether or not a player could sprint and still use a regular dash. Though I think it is pretty clear. |
You can definitely do a normal dash challenge if you want. The use of the Sprinter skill is optional.
| Quote: | | 2. Can a bankshot be used on a rebound? So the thrower throws it at the wall (that was his throw and he can choose the angle and add or subtract one) if that then makes it hit another white line can he use bankshot again? |
Yes ... that is why it say anytime in the skill.
| Quote: | | 5. Can taunt be used against the same opponent twice, if the first time failed? |
Yes
I need to read the rules again before I answer 4, 6, and 7.
Galak
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GalakStarscraper
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| bouncergriim wrote: | | in the extra rules it says type: NONE. |
Hmmm Valkyrie cover version of 4.91 doesn't ... I'll get that fixed.
Galak
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GalakStarscraper
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| bouncergriim wrote: | | 4. How do skills like goalie, ruthless, beeline, swarm, and teammate work. I ask this with regards to doing things that increase momentum between uses of these skills. I was thinking you might make these useable only after jog is exhausted, but before any dashes (this though limits the use of things like teammate or ruthless as a way to get to an opponent to hit them, but the dash might allow that) and is there any limit on the number of times these could be used in a turn. |
They can be used at any point during the turn and are not limited in how often they can be used.
Galak
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GalakStarscraper
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| bouncergriim wrote: | | 6. Can any skill be used in the face off choice or can none? Lets say my striker picks up the ball, but has to use agile to reroll it to get the success, then he ends up with 2 momentum from extra successes, can he then use burst to move into the opponents field if the opponent was down due to flopping the face off? |
The Face-off rules specifically mention how many squares can be moved (so Jog doens't come into play). So the only skills you could use would be ones that effect the Shove/Tackle/Pick-up ... ie (Buff, Grapple, Agile, and Focused).
| Quote: | | 7 building on #6, is the faceoff defined as an action, is the bonus choice defined as a separate action, and finally is the first real turn (action) by the winning faceoff time the same or a different action? This all boils down to is when and how many times may I use a skill in this first situation. Here, think about buff: Use buff to win faceoff, can I use it again to push the guy in my bonus choice, and yet again in my real turn to push him? |
Yes you could use Buff in all three cases.
Galak
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bouncergriim
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I asked about the extra movement skills because you had said you might change that based on my reading using a striker to dodge to get extra momentum to keep bursting until he reaches the goal. I could also see a tactic using a midfielder to get to the endzone by having a player already behind it for him to "teammate" towards, earning extra momentum to help the run through pushes or disengages.
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GalakStarscraper
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| bouncergriim wrote: | | I asked about the extra movement skills because you had said you might change that based on my reading using a striker to dodge to get extra momentum to keep bursting until he reaches the goal. I could also see a tactic using a midfielder to get to the endzone by having a player already behind it for him to "teammate" towards, earning extra momentum to help the run through pushes or disengages. |
And I've decided if you can develop a player that can pull this stunt off ... and then actually pull the play off ... more power to you.
Galak
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bouncergriim
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Are you ever going to compile an FAQ to put online, maybe a sticky? I was thinking that with the rulebook pointing this direction already, it might be a good thing to help keep people from asking the same questions mulitple times.
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GalakStarscraper
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| bouncergriim wrote: | | Are you ever going to compile an FAQ to put online, maybe a sticky? I was thinking that with the rulebook pointing this direction already, it might be a good thing to help keep people from asking the same questions mulitple times. |
I can make a sticky in this thread with answers to questions.
Galak
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bouncergriim
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One last question: If a player with the skill bonecrusher hits a impcrusher does the impcrusher not get any dice on the injury challenge?
Would it help to put a line in the challenge section saying no challenge unless otherwise stated can ever have less than 1 die rolled or more than 6 ( not counting conditional rolls) and "all challenges require at least one success even if the number needed is less than 1." (I know that last part is already stated)
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GalakStarscraper
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Actually I'm okay with a player with Bonecrusher automatically causing a zero success roll to a player with Grit 1.
Galak
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bouncergriim
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My only issue with it is there is also no chance to permenantly retire/kill the thing, but I guess that makes sense (you can always rebuild your engine and tranny) and becuase it doesn't gain skills, there is no real advantage to keeping an injured impcrusher any way.
And I guess there sort of is precident with the frog with 0 skill, he can't pick up the ball.
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bouncergriim
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If I fail a get up challenge using my last jog, can I still use my free action to get up, or do I still need to have a jog to pay for the penalty of failing the get up?
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