Tarota
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Throwing questionsOK, I think I understand how this works, but I want to make sure:
1) If a Throw challenge succeeds, then a successful Interception challenge will not result in a Shift in Momentum.
2) If a Throw challenge succeeds, but there is no one there to catch the ball (or the receiver chooses to auto-fail), this will not result in a Shift in Momentum.
3) Facing doesn't matter when making a Catch or Interception challenge.
4) If you flop a Catch challenge, but another figure on your team manages to catch the ball anyway, this is still a Shift in Momentum.
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bouncergriim
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Another throwing question: When counting hexes, do you count like you would "jog" there or do you use the string and count how many hexes it touches?
Also do you count the throwers hex in total distance?
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GrumpyGrizzly
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Re: Throwing questions | Tarota wrote: | OK, I think I understand how this works, but I want to make sure:
1) If a Throw challenge succeeds, then a successful Interception challenge will not result in a Shift in Momentum.
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Nope. Look at the catch challenge chart. At the bottom it says that "SiM if you flop a Catch roll during your turn OR the ball lands
on the ground/is caught by an opponent after a Throw challenge."
| Tarota wrote: |
2) If a Throw challenge succeeds, but there is no one there to catch the ball (or the receiver chooses to auto-fail), this will not result in a Shift in Momentum.
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It ends on the ground it's a SiM. Unlike FF, if it ends up being caught by one of your people, it is not a SiM. If it is an accurate throw it does not scatter, but it is still a SiM
| Tarota wrote: |
3) Facing doesn't matter when making a Catch or Interception challenge.
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That is correct
| Tarota wrote: |
4) If you flop a Catch challenge, but another figure on your team manages to catch the ball anyway, this is still a Shift in Momentum. |
You are correct, a flop is a SiM in almost all cases.
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GrumpyGrizzly
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| bouncergriim wrote: | Another throwing question: When counting hexes, do you count like you would "jog" there or do you use the string and count how many hexes it touches?
Also do you count the throwers hex in total distance? |
Counting hexes like it was jog is how we do it. We actually pulled out a seamstress measuring tape (the thin flexible kind) and measured it by 1"=1 pace, but it was that same as just counting hexes. We tried it at all kinds of weird angles, but counting squares was always the same.
I use the string for interception checks.
The thrower's hex doesn't count. So a throw of 1 pace is to the square next to him. (other wise the ball "scattering 1 pace" would be a bit strange to perform)
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Dark Lord
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| GrumpyGrizzly wrote: | Counting hexes like it was jog is how we do it. We actually pulled out a seamstress measuring tape (the thin flexible kind) and measured it by 1"=1 pace, but it was that same as just counting hexes. We tried it at all kinds of weird angles, but counting squares was always the same.
I use the string for interception checks.
The thrower's hex doesn't count. So a throw of 1 pace is to the square next to him. (other wise the ball "scattering 1 pace" would be a bit strange to perform) |
Same.
Ditto.
Ah yup.
-E-
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Tarota
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Re: Throwing questions | GrumpyGrizzly wrote: | | Tarota wrote: | OK, I think I understand how this works, but I want to make sure:
1) If a Throw challenge succeeds, then a successful Interception challenge will not result in a Shift in Momentum.
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Nope. Look at the catch challenge chart. At the bottom it says that "SiM if you flop a Catch roll during your turn OR the ball lands
on the ground/is caught by an opponent after a Throw challenge." |
OK, I guess. I just figured the Catch challenge chart wouldn't apply, because no Catch challenge is ever performed. And on the Throw challenge, a failed throw says that it's a potential SiM, but a successful Throw doesn't. This isn't a huge problem for this case (I would probably be spending all or most of my momentum to foil the Interception, after all), but it is more relevant for my second case. In fact, that one came up in my second game, although I just used up my momentum making the original pass worse. (Which, come to think of it, means I thought it would be a SiM at the time. Which was apparently right, but not what I would have ruled if I had thought of it...  )
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GrumpyGrizzly
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Re: Throwing questions | Tarota wrote: | | GrumpyGrizzly wrote: | | Tarota wrote: | OK, I think I understand how this works, but I want to make sure:
1) If a Throw challenge succeeds, then a successful Interception challenge will not result in a Shift in Momentum.
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Nope. Look at the catch challenge chart. At the bottom it says that "SiM if you flop a Catch roll during your turn OR the ball lands
on the ground/is caught by an opponent after a Throw challenge." |
OK, I guess. I just figured the Catch challenge chart wouldn't apply, because no Catch challenge is ever performed. And on the Throw challenge, a failed throw says that it's a potential SiM, but a successful Throw doesn't. This isn't a huge problem for this case (I would probably be spending all or most of my momentum to foil the Interception, after all), but it is more relevant for my second case. In fact, that one came up in my second game, although I just used up my momentum making the original pass worse. (Which, come to think of it, means I thought it would be a SiM at the time. Which was apparently right, but not what I would have ruled if I had thought of it... ) |
It is admittedly in a strange place, but it does make sense. Once you throw it, somebody should be catching it  Gotta watch doing the traditional dump off to the ground when you've got a pile of momentum. I do it all time and regret it.
I do like that if the ball hits the ground and then bounces back (even if it's to the original thrower - which happened once in my games) to somebody on your team, then there is no problem. Unlike traditional FF where if it hits the ground it's a turnover.
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Tarota
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Re: Throwing questions | GrumpyGrizzly wrote: | | It is admittedly in a strange place, but it does make sense. Once you throw it, somebody should be catching it |
Sure, but the rules are organized as a series of discrete challenges; the only two challenges that are explicitly linked are the Impact and Tackle challenges, and even there the wording can get confusing. The problem could be solved by using the same SiM language for the successful throw as the failing one, but it might be better to more strongly connect the Throw/Interception/Catch challenges as a second class of linked challenges. And I learned long ago that "sense" and "game rules" are only very loosely linked , so I hate to rely on that...
Anyway, I get it now, and can demo (more) correctly.
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Mad Jackal
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Re: Throwing questions | Tarota wrote: | | GrumpyGrizzly wrote: | | It is admittedly in a strange place, but it does make sense. Once you throw it, somebody should be catching it |
Sure, but the rules are organized as a series of discrete challenges; the only two challenges that are explicitly linked are the Impact and Tackle challenges, and even there the wording can get confusing. The problem could be solved by using the same SiM language for the successful throw as the failing one, but it might be better to more strongly connect the Throw/Interception/Catch challenges as a second class of linked challenges. And I learned long ago that "sense" and "game rules" are only very loosely linked , so I hate to rely on that...
Anyway, I get it now, and can demo (more) correctly. |
Ok. I fully understand your point. So do not take this as accusatory. I'm just trying to clarify the rules and give you more ammo if you have to explain it to people. (also I'm in a rush so my editing is very poor.)
In my printed version which may be 4.8 or just a bit earlier in the section under Momentum (Just before Get up Challenges are described).
Page 5 in my version.
The rules tell you what momentumis, how it is gained and what causes a SHiM.
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The list of action ending events that cause a turn-over include:
Failing to pick up the ball during a pick up challenge.
Failing to have one of your players catch the ball after a throw challenge
Failing a dash challenge
Flopping a challenge(if you have flopped a challenge no momentum counters can be used to change this).. |
You do not have to look through each challenge section to find the shims.
This is all you need to know.
I hope this clears things up.
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GalakStarscraper
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Re: Throwing questions | Mad Jackal wrote: | | This is all you need to know. And if it is gone from the current version of the rules, then it needs added back in, (in my opinion.) I hope this clears things up. |
Its still there.
Galak
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Mad Jackal
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Re: Throwing questions | GalakStarscraper wrote: | | Mad Jackal wrote: | | This is all you need to know. And if it is gone from the current version of the rules, then it needs added back in, (in my opinion.) I hope this clears things up. |
Its still there.
Galak |
I didn't figure you had removed it. I jsut have not gotten the latest version printed to paper yet.
And of course my adobe won't open the PDF for me to look either..
I think it is pretty clear that way. Some-one on your team failed to catch the ball after a throw challenge (it was intercepted) so it's a SHim.
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Tarota
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 Yeah, it's right there in black and white. The one time I can recall it coming up in a demo I did it right, so I guess I knew it at some point. Just a case of overthinking...
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