| Archive for IMPACT! MINIATURES A forum for the discussion of board games and miniatures of the company (Impact! Miniatures) |
| Father |
Waterworld (working title)this idea has been floating around in my head for a bit, and I thought I'd post it here and get some feedback. This will be a naval combat\boarding action squad game. I have some rudementry rules worked out but for now i'm just posting my unfinished concepts. I have 6 races but only three are resonably flushed out right now. comments are welcome.Premise - thousands of years ago on the world of Dessabran a cataclysm, known as the Sinking, sank almost all the worlds land except for small parts of the human kingdoms (now small islands) the remaining races now live permanently on the sea, trading for resources to keep themselves alive. Campaign setting - a geological upheaval has raised a section of sea bed. An ancient city is now in shallow water creating new islands and resources. Both the phenomenon and the area affected are referred to as "the Rising". The races congregate to claim the new land and salvage what they can. small territorial disputes are inevitable... History - the Sinking happened many thousands of years ago. Nobody knows what caused it, angry gods, environmental degradation, or magic gone astray. The cause may be unknown but the effects were profound. Almost overnight all the land in the world sank, the only remaining usable land are the plateaus of the human kingdom. Civilizations were destroyed without warning, only a few seafaring races managed to survive in reasonable quantities. Humans The Highlands of the human kingdom consisted mostly of great forests inhabited by woodsmen clans. These clansmen lived under the repressive King Henry III. Henry, always wanting to have the biggest and best of everything, taxed his subjects mercilessly, while spending the money frivolously. One fateful day Henry decided he needed a new duck pond in his garden. To pay for his new pond he raised the taxes, even though he had just raised them the day before to pay for the gold inlaid bench the duck pond was now going to replace. Upon hearing the news that the taxes were going up once again, Cliaman of the clan Uilleam was heard to curse, "May tha' good fer nutin king and 'is tax collectors sink inter der sea, ner' to bother us agin." Naturally, that night, that is exactly what happened. Henrys’ last words, uttered as he sank below the waves, are rumored to have been, "Now that's a duck pond, let's see Baron Bardu top that!" Cliaman was declared a hero and when ships full of survivors of the Sinking began to show up it was to him that they swore their allegiance. Cliaman became King Cliaman first king of the Highlands. Cliamans’ first order of business, like any good king, was to immediately begin taxing his subjects. Cliaman soon realized that his lands possessed some very valuable resources. The highland forests became the only source of lumber and Cliaman passed several conservation laws to ensure the lumber would remain a renewable resource. Also located in the Highlands are the Dragon caves. Dragons were a legend even before the Sinking, what the caves actually hold are sulfur springs and a large colony of bats. By mining the Dragon caves the humans are able to produce black powder. Black powder was a new discovery and had not made its way out to the other races yet. The Highlands became rich and powerful and are now the center of civilization on Dessabran. Over the centuries the taxes have become a little unbearable however… Entomon Before the Sinking the Entomon lived in giant floating hives anchored off the southern coasts. Existing as an interconnected hive mind they would gather resources from shore, otherwise living independent of the other races; knowing little about them and caring even less. After the sinking the Entomon hives remained undisturbed but the natural resources the Entomon relied on were gone. In desperation the Entomon created ships from Cocoate. Cocoate is a malleable substance excreted from the Entomon drones which was used to build the Entomon hives. It is Ivory in color and once it has hardened it is light, durable, and stronger than steel. In these Cocoate ships the Entomon began to explore looking for resources to sustain them. They soon found resources in the form of the Forests of the Human Highlands; The Entomon went to work gathering resources and attempted to live as they always had. It was not long however before the Entomon realized these island were inhabited by a strange species. Its shell was soft, It did not dance speak, and the individual parts seemed to have difficulty coordinating with each other. Even more confusing It became increasingly agitated whenever the Entomon would gather food. Soon it even began to use violence to prevent the Entomon from coming ashore! The Entomon mind had never encountered behavior like this and could not fathom the reasons for it, what it did sense is that this creature posed an unacceptable threat. For the first and last time, the Entomon went to war. The fledgling highland kingdom was no match for the Entomon' deadly efficient hive mind and their nearly invulnerable Cocoate ships. All would have been lost if not for a fortunate coincidence. Fortunate for the Highlanders at least, Not so fortunate for the Pinimo trade ship which found the highlands at the worst possible time. The Entomon could not distinguish the Pinimo from the Humans; they overran the ship killing the hapless crew. The Pinimo ship However, had a full hold of Grog and the Entomon simply could not resist the sweet smell. It was at this time that some peculiar things about Entomon physiology became apparent. First, Entomon Drones become inebriated after just a taste of Grog. Second, once a drone has tasted grog it will spend the rest of its existence craving more. Third, and most devastating for the Entomon, because of the hive mind, when one Entomon is drunk, they are all drunk. All at once the entire hive mind suddenly broke into a dance talk rendition of roll out the barrel, "click, whirr, click,click,click". Confused, the hive mind recalled the now nearly incapacitated Entomon from the Highlands. Unfortunately, the drones brought the Grog back with them, a couple of hours later every drone in the hive mind was hopelessly addicted and sea ditties were the only productive activity going on. To make matters worse, the Alcohol in their systems changed the composition of the Cocoate, it was still malleable and would harden but rather than being strong and resilient it became brittle. The once invulnerable Entomon ships were now dangerously fragile. In a last ditch effort to save itself the hive mind did the only thing it could. It began to isolate the inebriated minds from itself; essentially it created pockets of individualism, or mini hive minds, within itself that could become inebriated without affecting the rest of the hive mind. These smaller hive minds were able to function, if not as efficiently as before, at least to the point that they could remain standing. As a consequence of the hive minds universal addiction, the Entomon priorities changed, their primary drive was no longer to get food, but to get Grog... Gnomes Gnomes are both gifted and cursed with an intrinsic need to "do it better". Their desire to create is only matched by their desire to trade. It can only be surmised that bartering for the best deal triggers the same pleasure centers that fine tuning their latest contraption does. Whatever the reason Gnomes spend their lives striving to craft the best machines and then trying to sell them for the best price. Unfortunately these two goals are often at odds with each other; because they are always pushing the envelope Gnome machines are notoriously unreliable and often even dangerous. As a result Gnomes almost never manage to sell their prized creations to other races At the time of the sinking the Highlands were full of gnomes. They had heard of the Black powder the humans had created and came in the hopes of learning its secrets. Just imagine the wondrous machines they could create with a substance like that. The humans could imagine the wondrous machines and wisely refused to trade any black powder with the gnomes. Not to be discouraged, the gnomes were in the process of demonstrating their new wood chopping machine (It slices, it dices, and it comes with a free tourniquet for those pesky dismemberments) when the world sank. This caused a bit of a stir, but the Gnomes are not the type to miss an opportunity. The gnomes were able to arrange trade agreements between the humans and Pinimo and set themselves up in the lucrative position of middleman. This arrangement however still didn’t get them what they truly wanted, black powder. That changed the day a small gnome exploration vessel found the Entomon hives. Hopelessly drunk and near starvation the Entomon hive mind remembering the disaster of its encounter with the humans, tried a new tact. Since the speech of the gnomes was incomprehensible (Entomon have no ears) it tried instead to teach the gnomes to dance speak. The gnome captain spoke with a horrible lisp due to a leg injury suffered during a demonstration of his automatic fishing pole but it was eventually worked out that the Entomon wanted his ship! In trade they offered one of their own cocoate ships. The Gnomes were fascinated by this strange material and agreed to the trade as long as the Entomon threw in a supply of fresh cocoate for them to study. With the deal sealed the Entomon carried off the gnome ship for a long overdue buffet and the gnomes took a closer look at their acquisition. Naturally the Gnomes immediately went to work cooking, mixing, diluting and doing anything else they could think of to the cocoate. Remarkably, the 8th preparation they tried, turned the cocoate hard as steel, they had stumbled upon a way to undue the chemical changes caused by the alcohol in the Entomon system. The gnomes were able to forge the cocoate into usable tools and weapons, a valuable skill given that there were no longer any mine able mineral deposits left. The Gnomes finally had something valuable enough that the humans were willing to part with some black powder. The Gnomes would trade lumber to the Entomon in return for cocoate which they would then forge into weapons and tools which they traded to the humans for gunpowder. With the acquisition of both cocoate and black powder the gnomes began to make machines that would forever change the world of Dessabran. Guns, cannons, rockets, warfare would never be the same… Voyagers The Voyagers are an interstellar race who, for reasons they are keeping to themselves, would travel from world to world making strange symbols in crop fields and probing the various races they encountered. The night of the sinking, a Voyager mother ship was hovering above the planet of Dessabran. They had been drawn to the planet by the strange readings they were getting in the aquanet. The aquanet is an energy field that is produced by water; it extends from planet to planet throughout the galaxy. The Voyagers discovered this field and use it as the foundation for most of their technology. Suddenly there was a giant surge in the aquanet, the mother ship machinery went haywire and the vessel came crashing into the sea. Most of the machinery on the mother ship was destroyed in the crash, but, by cannibalizing the mother ship the Voyagers were able to create boats to travel about the planet in. The mother ship itself however is beyond repair and strange fluctuations in the aquanet have prevented communication off planet. The Voyagers began trading fresh water (the creation of which is child’s play for them) in exchange for materials to repair their ship. Unfortunately it has become clear that there are simply not enough materials available to finish the repairs. Besides, after centuries on Dessabran most voyagers consider themselves native to the planet and are now more interested in booty than interplanetary travel. Ursii The Ursii are a deeply spiritual people who lived in strong nomadic family units along the northern coasts before the sinking. The sanctity of the family unit is core to the Ursii belief system and an Ursii will do anything to protect them. They worship the ocean as the creator of all life, viewing all living beings are children of the sea and thus all siblings. After the sinking the Ursii families were in dire straights, the loss of their hunting grounds left them with no way of sustaining themselves. Having no other choice, groups of Ursii left their family units and began raiding the highlands. Through these acts of violence the Ursii were damning themselves but they were willing to sacrifice their own wellbeing in order to provide for their families. Soon the people of the highlands learned to fear the mournful wails of the Ursii that preceded each raid. The Ursii battle lament spoke of the double tragedy that was about to happen, the loss of their brother beings lives and the loss of the Ursiis’ own souls. The majority of the Ursii population now lives on massive hearth ships which follow the current around the Highlands. Here, they live peacefully, praying for the souls of the Ursii raiders which provide for them. Pinimo Before the Sinking the Pinimo lived on an island chain. They were already master fishermen and have become even more adept in the centuries since, developing deep sea fishing and harvesting techniques unknown to the other races. The Pinimo follow a feudal caste system similar to ancient Japan. They live structured lives, striving to master their trades. Pinimo study the ancient art of FishFu as an expression of physical and mental discipline. Following the teachings passed down through the centuries they use weapons and martial arts styles fashioned after the Fish they catch. Many a foe has learned too late just how deadly a fishchuck can be in experienced hands. Another Aspect of FishFu is the brewing (and consumption) of grog. Grog is an alcoholic drink created from deep sea kelp harvestable only by the Pinimo. Alcohol was unknown to the other races of Dessabran before the sinking, after the sinking it has become a major trade good for the Pinimo and floating bars are now common place throughout the pond. Navigation There are two main methods of navigation on the pond. In addition to the compass directions travel is measured relative to the current. The current runs clockwise around the highlands so by reaching starboard across the current (reaching home) you will travel in the direction of the highlands. By reaching port across the current (reaching away) you will travel away from the highlands into open water. This makes navigation an easy prospect as long as you stay within the pond, as no matter how lost you are all you need to do is sail until you find the current and then reach home. the trade wars the trade laws - only a licensed trade captain may conduct trade - ships are sacred and not to be destroyed or stolen, any ship destroyed will be replaced by the trade captain who caused the damage - to minimize the escalation of violence, no trade party may have more than 20 members - Any theft of goods or personal items is forbidden - breaking any of the above rules will result in the loss of the captains’ trade license the loophole - trade disputes will be handled through fair trial by combat - Combat will continue until an honorable surrender is given - Humans Trade resource - lumber, black powder Physical Description - Scottish kilts. Ships - Frigate (12 fully manned) resilience 5 move - 2 riggers turn - 1 helmsman 8 cannons (two in each direction) - 1 crew/cannon Crow’s-nest - 1 lookout Sloop (7 fully manned) resilience 4 Move - 1 riggers turn - 1 helmsman 4 cannons (one in each direction) - 1 crew/cannon Crow’s-nest - 1 lookout Special - none. quote - "I can na' do it cap'n. We're already pushin' the sails as 'ard as we can." Entomon Trade resources - Cocoate (metal substitute), silk. Physical description - intelligent wasps with opposable thumbs and a drinking problem. Ships - chrysalis ship (9 fully manned) resilience 3 move - 2 riggers turn - 1 helmsman 6 cannons (three to each side) - 1 crew/cannon Pod ship (4 fully manned) resilience 2 Move - 1 riggers turn - 1 helmsman 2 cannons (two to the front) - 1 crew/cannon Special - Hive mind. Wings. quote - "click, 'hic', whirr, 'hic', click" Gnomes Trade resources - inventors Physical description - Spanish conquistador outfits. Ships - trade ship (11 fully manned) resilience 5 move - 2 riggers turn - 2 helmsmen 4 cannons (one to each side) - 1 crew/cannon 2 rockets - 1 crew/rocket Crow’s-nest - 1 lookout Rocket ship (3 fully manned) resilience 2 Move - 1 riggers turn - 1 helmsman 1 rocket - 1 crew/rocket Special - the weapons traded to other races are safe and reliable, but that's too boring for the gnomes. Gnomes are physically weak but have firearms that can do tremendous damage; unfortunately they may also catastrophically fail... quote - "that's good, but I bet it'll be even better if I just tighten this bolt..." Voyagers Trade resource - water Physical description - taller than gnomes but shorter than humans, slender, big eyes, grey skin, dressed in colorful robes (Grey's from alien popular culture). Ships - Hover ship (6 fully loaded) resilience 3 move - 2 riggers turn - 1 helmsman 2 water cannons (may fire in any direction) - 1 crew/cannon Crow’s-nest - 1 lookout Skiff (6 fully loaded) resilience 3 move - 4 riggers turn - 1 helmsman 1 water cannons (may fire in any direction) - 1 crew/cannon Special - The Voyagers technology allows them to manipulate water in extraordinary ways. This manipulation is viewed as magic by the other races and the voyagers have made no efforts to change the misconception. The voyagers’ abilities will be represented by skills that are available only to them. They will likely all start with one skill and may then learn others with experience. they will use gnome firearms and other weapons like the other races do but will otherwise be physically frail. quote - "..." Ursii - Ur•si•i (Ur'see-i') (singular Ursius) Trade resource - none (pirates) Physical description - hulking bear like Vikings, Ships - Lodge ship, (12 fully manned) resilience 5 move - 2 riggers 4 oarsmen (if 4 crew are assigned to row the ships speed is increased by 1, this speed increase is available no matter the wind speed or direction) turn - 1 helmsman 4 cannons (two to each side) - 1 crew/cannon Crow’s-nest - 1 lookout Longboat (9 fully manned) resilience 4 move - 1 rigger 4 oarsmen (if 4 crew are assigned to row the ships speed is increased by 1, this speed increase is available no matter the wind speed or direction) turn - 1 helmsman 2 cannons (one to each side) - 1 crew/cannon Crow’s-nest - 1 lookout Special - Ursii normally hold back in combat not wishing to do harm to their opponents, however they can unleash their full might in times of desperation. An Ursius may choose, before the roll is made, to add +1 to their strength. However, should this blow result in the opponents’ death the Ursius will be overcome with grief and will immediately go below deck to perform contrition rights. These rights will last for the remainder of this game as well as the next game. If an Ursius ever kills twice in this manner it will be so overcome with grief that it will retire permanently. quote - "Please forgive me for the harm I must now inflict upon you..." Pinimo Trade resource - Fish, Grog! physical description - Pirate Ninja Monkeys! Ships - Fishing Barge, (11 fully manned) resilience 5 move - 2 riggers turn - 1 helmsman 8 cannons (two to each side) - 1 crew/cannon Dragon boat (4 fully manned) resilience 3 move - 1 rigger turn - 1 helmsman 2 cannons (two to the front) - 1 crew/cannon Special - Pinimo are masters of hand to hand, highly skilled with both sword and fist. Quote - "Contemplate the sound of one fish slapping." |
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| Father |
Fleshed out the Ursii a bit more...
Ursii The Ursii are a deeply spiritual people who lived in strong nomadic family units along the northern coasts before the sinking. The sanctity of the family unit is core to the Ursii belief system and an Ursii will do anything to protect them. They worship the ocean as the creator of all life, viewing all living beings are children of the sea and thus all siblings. After the sinking the Ursii families were in dire straights, the loss of their hunting grounds left them with no way of sustaining themselves. Having no other choice, groups of Ursii left their family units and began raiding the highlands. Through these acts of violence the Ursii were damning themselves but they were willing to sacrifice their own wellbeing in order to provide for their families. Soon the people of the highlands learned to fear the mournful wails of the Ursii that preceded each raid. The Ursii battle lament spoke of the double tragedy that was about to happen, the loss of their brother beings lives and the loss of the Ursiis’ own souls. The majority of the Ursii population now lives on massive hearth ships which follow the current around the Highlands. Here, they live peacefully, praying for the souls of the Ursii raiders which provide for them. |
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| fen |
There absolutely has to be a ravening horde of undead pirates in there somewhere. Headed by a single, ancient, undying pirate who's been around for as long as folklore can remember. Every time he's been killed he's turned up elsewhere, and he seems to captain every ship personally.
If they're genuinely evil, or just undead and piratical remains to be seen. I do like the Entomons, that's a great spin on an existing idea (hive minds) Don't like the Pinimo though, pirates and ninjas should be kept separate imo. But monkey pirates, that I do like. |
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| Father |
Does this help with the Pinimo?
Before the Sinking the Pinimo lived on an island chain. They were already master fishermen and have become even more adept in the centuries since, developing deep sea fishing and harvesting techniques unknown to the other races. The Pinimo follow a feudal caste system similar to ancient Japan. They live structured lives, striving to master their trades. Pinimo study the ancient art of FishFu as an expression of physical and mental discipline. Following the teachings passed down through the centuries they use weapons and martial arts styles fashioned after the Fish they catch. Many a foe has learned too late just how deadly a fishchuck can be in experienced hands. Another Aspect of FishFu is the brewing (and consumption) of grog. Grog is an alcoholic drink created from deep sea kelp harvestable only by the Pinimo. Alcohol was unknown to the other races of Dessabran before the sinking, after the sinking it has become a major trade good for the Pinimo and floating bars are now common place throughout the pond. Undead pirates are on my list of possible future races, but your right they should probably make an appearance sooner... |
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| Dark Lord |
This sounds cool. Sort of mix of Man O' War and Mordheim (to put it in Grandma Wendy terms)?
I don't see anything about drinking water (thinking of the Waterworld movie), I think it would be as precious or more than dry land. I did just skim the text so I may missed it. |
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| Father |
The Voyagers create the drinking water, I added that recently though so it may not have been there when you read through. |
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| GalakStarscraper |
I like the idea of having playing boards for the different type of ships for boarding actions.
I also think you could go with hex printed seas and use plastic circles to easily represent how tight a ship can turn. Small quick ships can use a 1 inch template where as large battle ships could use a 4 inch circle. On a hex pitch you'd just lay it next to the ship and using a hex sea this would very quickly show you how tight a turning radius you could do without needing the screwball templates that Man O' War used (a game I really liked) but the templates were really tough to use. The more I think about it ... the more I think a large hex printed sea would work for easy to use rules. You could do half inch hexes on the sea and then do ships that are 1/2 inch, 1 inch, 1/2 inch, and 2 inches long. I also think having the different types of movement of the ships make sense. In MOW you had sail, oar, engine, and magic ... some ships had more than one. I think addressing that would make sense. The trick to make this a fun game would be to have it be 3 games in one. Naval Combat (no boarding), Boarding only (ie just have the game go from one close combat skirmish to another for play), and a way to combine the two together. The biggest problem with MOW in my opinion was that the d*mn ships were a pain to assemble. ... especially the sails. If there was a way to do the whole things in metal from the start and avoid the pain that was metal+plastic+paper that was your normal MOW ship ... that would work. Mix that in with some cool pirate figs, some hex based combat maps for the different ships that could be laid side by side for the combat. Rules for daggers, swords, and pistols ... you'd have a game. Galak |
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| Dark Lord |
The cardboard ships of Pirates of the Spanish Main are pretty easy to assemble. And that type of thing could be downloaded in a PDF. | ||
| GalakStarscraper |
Galak |
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| Dark Lord |
Hmmn. That seems a bit of a broad copyright. I mean aren't there a bunch of things that are assembled like that? Wasn't prettymuch everything in Mordheim, Hero Quest, Warhammer and a bunch of other games built with the insert tab A into slot B method? And no need to make them trading cards. Make them downloadable PDFs. I think that's really different enough. They can't have copyrighted cardboard assembly.
I would think as long as you kept away from pirate ships of the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries on collectible trading cards there wouldn't be a problem. I also see that Constructable Trading Cards is trademarked but nothing about a copyright on cardboard assembled boats...but I'm no lawyer either. Edit: I just looked and White Wolf made a PotSM clone called Racer Knights of Falconus. I think if they can make a trading card game that build little vehicles out of cardboard you guys would be okay making cunstractable ships for your game. Plus, they aren't same scale, genre or even the same game type. Another idea would be to make part of the ship (like the hull) fairly generic and out of plastic and then include cardboard "tab A slot B" parts to build the deck, sails, guns etc. |
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| Father |
Some possible scenarios that would fit this genre.
Bar fight! Description - A few of the sailors stop at one of the floating taverns for some R and R. Inevitably, someone insults someone else’s mother and a fight breaks out! Game board – a 2d hex board depicting the tavern, stairs, chandeliers, bar stools, you get the idea. Special Rules – Played with a subset of your crew. Weapons are checked at the door so its fisticuffs and broken beer bottles. The troll bouncer will soon get involved to break things up though. And the barkeep will hold the trade captain of sailors the troll manages to subdue responsible for damages… Trade dispute Description – You’ve spotted another convoy, as it turns out your second cousin Wally once made an agreement with the first mates uncle in regards to some day old herring. The opposing trade captain has the nerve to say he’s never heard of good ol’ Wally. There’s only one way to settle this! Trade Dispute! Game board – grid representing the water the fight takes place on, amount of islands and reefs will be random from open water to convoluted shallows. Ship templates will be used for ship to ship boarding actions. Island maps are available but there are no objectives on them. Special rules – This is the meat and potatoes scenario, naval combat combined with boarding actions. Winner loots the loser. Buried treasure Description - While relaxing at the tavern you overhear a drunken sailor bragging about the location of his trade captains buried goods. You make some hasty notes and head out to claim the loot. When you arrive you find the sailor really did have a big mouth as your not the only one looking for the goods. The race is on! Now, was it the third island from the hanging rock or the forth? Game board - grid representing the water the fight takes place on, medium to heavy number of islands and reefs. Ship templates will be used for ship to ship boarding actions. Island maps are will be marked with potential locations of buried treasure. Special rules – a number of random islands will be chosen as potential treasure locations. Crews will have to make landfall and dig to find the treasure. Only one location will actually contain the treasure. Scenario will be won with the surrender of one side, so to encourage treasure hunting there will be a bonus to holding the treasure, perhaps earning extra money the more rounds you hold onto it (to a maximum, representing the entire treasure) as your crew pockets parts of it. Land grab Description – wealthy investors have hired your crew to claim a large island for them, you’ll have to fight off the other interested parties though… Game board – A large island board (3~4 times the size of a ship) and docked ships to act as home bases Special rules – the standard fight till surrender win requirement. The docked ships can lend support with their cannons. Salvage hunt Description – Similar to the treasure hunt except the salvageable goods are not hidden and there will be more than one salvage location. Game board - grid representing the water the fight takes place on, medium to heavy number of islands and reefs. Ship templates will be used for ship to ship boarding actions. Island maps are will be marked with locations of salvageable goods. Special rules – a number of random islands will be chosen as salvage locations. Crews will have to make landfall claim the goods. Scenario will be won with the surrender of one side, so to encourage salvage there will be a bonus to holding the salvage. Siege? I’m not sure about this one, a floating fort? Or just a raid on a tavern or settled island. Just an idea at this point. The creature from the deep Description – The Rising brought more than islands to the surface… This one would be more of a modifier than a separate scenario; the creature would attack ships at random making the entire scenario more dangerous. |
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| Bodhi |
Not even a proper concept. Just a quickie for fun. A Pinimo perhaps?:
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| Father |
Nice! and not far of the image I had in my head...
I think the only thing missing is the tail. Nothing screams monkey like a prehensil tail. |
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| brownrob |
LOL, i just noticed that sketch! Thats great stuff Bodhi!
I might try to collect the rules Father has and make it into a PDF, if thats OK with Father! |
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| Father |
More power to you, Rob, I think they are in serious need of touching uo\p, Anything that looks odd as you go through them be sure to mention. | ||
| brownrob |
you use MSN or anything like that Dale? I started to tidy up your work (bear in mind Im no Sallacious when it comes to design!) It would be good to chat about such things! Im also thinking of opening it up to the FUMBBL crew too, get some folk over there interested, a concise rulebook goes a fair way in getting more interest! The more feedback we get the merrier.
I also joined the yahoo Man O'War group to see what those guys thought of the rules (they have been playing naval games for years) and some seem impressed with it, though its a hard task trying to get them to come over here! Oh, my laptop is screwed too so MBBL PBEM will have to wait until tomorrow! Sorry about that! 
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| Father |
Thanks for the interest and initiative your showing Rob, It's nice to know that others see the potential here as well. I have MSN at work (cause, you know, I have much more free time there  ) I'll send you some details tommorrow.
I think the biggest things needed are more (and better) diagrams to explain the rules. A picture is worth a thousand words... We also need to find a more concise way to explain "crossing the wind" That or it needs to be dropped, It's a cool idea but I think it's confusing as currently presented. I've also written a program and done some number crunching for the boarding action rules, found some imbalances so a bit of tweeking will be required there. |
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| brownrob |
No worries, I made it into a PDF file (the border looks horrible but its only an evenings work! I guess the layout needs work, but then again Im not sure how a rule book should be laid out!) and I also added in the picture bodhi supplied of the Pinimo, I added in a few red comments where I wasnt sure of how rules work etc, but Ive read through it all (Just check the tutorial for ship movement, as far as I can see your "scenario 4" left the ship one square short, but check that, there could be something Im missing! I added in an index too and added a few items to the Tavern
About the Tavern, is that a scenario? Or how does it arise? I had the idea that the "locals" could be controlled by another player and could play along however they saw fit, the Trolls should have a negatrait i think? And dont you think the Impact! barmaid would make a perfect character for that? One mini down! 
Also, I may have missed it, but what area do the attacking crew enter the boat when boarding? Is the setting up the crew members the same as the start of the game? Also, what happens if a member of the crows nest is hit by ships fire? Knocked out means the next is temporarily out of order? I think at this stage the diagrams we have are OK, if Impact! ever decides to sell the rulebook in a boxset its likely better to keep a "fancy" version behind the scenes and have a "bare bones" rulebook for the development to encourage sales for the partners I do see that there is potential here, otherwise I wouldnt have spent all evening working at the formatting! :P http://www.impactminiatures.net/WaterWorld.pdf |
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| brownrob |
bodhi, i really liked your Pinimo sketch, you have time, and feel inclined, Id love to see how you visualise the rest of the races, I cant draw well Im afraid :( | ||
| Father |
Looks great Rob! I don't really have time to comment right now, I'll give it a better look though tommorrow. | ||
| IronAge_Man |
I had a quick glance, and it certainly seems to have a lot of detail in the rules - I'll get to read those eventually. It's obviously a labour of love for Father, and I'll try to help with some editing when I can.
My major concern are the choice of races. Making up completely new ones means that you're trying to sell miniatures to a 'niche of a niche' i.e. people who actually want to play the game. If you stick to or also include the generic Tolkeinesque races, there's plenty of people who'll buy pirate Elves/Dwarfs/Orcs etc. beyond those playing this game. I guess the question is whether the game is the major draw, or the miniatures. In an ideal world, both would be, but I'm not sure Impact! can launch a game in the mould of Warmachine with it's own distinctive style, thus sacrificing the option of having miniatures generic enough to have wider appeal. I hope this doesn't pour too much water on the fire, but I'm trying to give an objective view on this. |
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| Bodhi |
Getting plenty of excercise now. My pupils write characterdescriptions and I draw "portraits" based on their descriptions. With the descriptions written by kids who have difficulties in the normal schoolsystem it can become fairly little information to base the drawings on
I'll try though when I get time for it. |
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| Stovaa |
Ah, but I think the draw of monkey pirates is as big as the Tolkien-esque draw.
Ask 10 people you know if they would want a Pirate Orc army or a Monkey Pirate army. I think monkey pirates will win. |
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| Father |
The races are intended as "placeholders" I added history and stats, well, just because I could 
I did make an attempt to create something original though. Elf pirate are, well... elf pirates. Been there done that. Obviously the question of marketability will have to be decided before anything can be made though. |
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| GalakStarscraper |
Honestly ... this is one of those ideas that I love. But it really comes down to a basic element ... the cost of producing it vs the # of folks that will buy it.
We need to get past GenCon 2007 and see where Impact! is after that event as we are hoping that that will be a big deal for us both in terms of sales and helping establish some USA trade accounts. Galak |
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| Father |
Understood completely. I've never been under any other impression. This game will be a niche game. It could hit big, it could miss big. And truthfully, Even I can't be really sure how it would sell. I've tried to design a game that I would enjoy playing, something that is reminiscent of FF, man of War, necromunda, Gorka-Morka, Hero's quest ect. All the specialist games that I've enjoyed playing so much. It's been a while since I've seen a new game in this vein and in the presence of a vacuum... |
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| IronAge_Man |
Having actual shelf space to fill changes the goals of the game design process completely - instead of providing an excuse to make miniatures, the miniatures instead become subject to the needs of the game. Considering the huge amount of work Father has put in on this, I think that is fitting. The idea of seeing OUR games sitting on a shelf in a toy shop (or at least hobby shop) is also a huge incentive for the rest of us to get our collective finger out 
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| fen |
Hah, tell me about it. I've got a pile of paper for a game idea I need to type up and get looked at. |
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| GalakStarscraper |
Just always remember guys ... we are still in the red money wise (which is expected as most business need 18 months to get into the black ... so I love the discussions ... but right now we are trying to get into those black numbers.
We have a lot of new products coming in so I'm not worried at all on our getting to the black ... honestly not. But until we get there I just want you all to make sure you understand what position we are in. We have a LOT of projects we'd like to do. Basically we need to get our feet on the ground and hopefully several full new teams in our store (we are working on 3 six figure or more teams right now). Add in those teams with several other new figures, the carrying cases, the magnetic bases and football, several conversion sprues, ProCreate, and hopefully the Football D6s and 30mm bases as well. With this in the store ... hopefully we'll have the groundwork to build up a company that one day could consider a game like Father's. I'd like to get there. Be a nice dream. Galak |
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| IronAge_Man |
If you build it, they will come :) I'm delighted that there seems to be few worries of financial ruin for the company. With all these new projects due out, it could be a lively Christmas. At least Father has nailed his colours to the mast for Impact's first flagship game (puns fully intended ).
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| brownrob |
Tom, Ive already said to Ewan that Ill do anything i can (within my capabilities!) to help Impact! along, Ive said it before (perhaps the effect is wearing off!) but I think its a great thing going here, obviously this game wont be done overnight!
as has been said before, Impact! arent a "tinpot" outfit (the name was considered as the company name tho!) , and any game that will be designed will be as good as anything else, if not better, it will take time, and playtesting, and in a years time Impact! may be in a much better position to do things. I see the potential in the Naval game, and am trying to rope in as many good people as I can involved
At the end of the day, the game can go two ways if it will be produced, either as a free LRB to download and buy the minis/dice, or as a boxset, which is riskier, but potentially more to be made, and a product that could be on the shelves so to speak |
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| brownrob |
hmmm... what about using the VASSAL game engine to test stuff? as far as i know, you can have all types of board, hexes etc. I dont know the first thing about setting it up though... Ill have a look... but is it worth pursuing as a testing avenue?
http://www.vassalengine.org/community/index.php |
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| Father |
Now that is cool Rob.
I've been playing around with the idea of making a quick and dirty application to test these rules with. The amount of time this will save me is phenominal. I don't know when I'll have time to get something together (I'm currently in the process of selling my house and moving) But this is now very high on my priority list. |
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| brownrob |
ok... i uploaded the very start of the VASSAL thing... I managed to make a square grid for the sea, though need to talk with Father to see what size we actually need it. I was able to add in his images of boats and stuff, but i forgot to save it (doh!), Im willing to make this.... but I need help... I m not all that good at his VASSAL thing to be honest!
http://www.vassalengine.org/commu...y&module_id=389&page=Home I dont know why the file looks like an mpeg but trust me it works fine! Id be awfully grateful if anyone is interested to help out would register on VASSAL and Ill add you as a contibutor, or PM me for my MSN address, I already have Father, Ewan and Valen (though Valen and Ewan havent been on much in recent months!) on MSN |
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| brownrob |
nobody? 
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| Father |
sorry Rob, I missed your first post.us I'll try to have a look tonight. | ||
| brownrob |
well the humans have a ship now which they can move about :P Need to do more work, but it is progress! :) | ||
| brownrob |
Added a couple of Human ships... dont really know How to add stats to them all just now... may add another card for them.
Added movement trails for the 2 ships i have so far, a 1d6 button and a 2d6 button, zoom too! ;) Now I need to find some scenery I can add in... I dont think we need too much more to make a playable mod... perhaps those images for the boats but without the hexes, as i can get VASSAL to add them in for me ;) Thinking about it... this could easily be used for Elfball testing too |
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