IMPACT! MINIATURES

juergen · Joined: 09 Nov 2006 Posts: 29

damn, should have read this earlier, in my test game yesterday we had the current rules, but the old reference sheet and flopped a ton of get ups

although it's not a challenge anymore, I would suggest adding this to the reference sheet with the modifiers. If you have played a lot of games you know if it is 5/8-grit but when you a new to the game (and thats the time where the reference sheet helps the most) it's just a parapgraph in 22 pages which is very easy to miss

GalakStarscraper · The Big Man Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 5310

Good point .... not sure if I have room on the Reference Sheet for it ... but I'll try to fit it on.

Galak

Dark Lord · Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 2055

The "5 less his Grit" to stand up is a great rule and has been a big hit around here but during my game with Mad Jackal we had a situation come up where the rule showed a flaw...however, it's the only one I have seen!

We had a situation where my skeleton (Grit 6) wanted to stand up and disengage from two players. He was going to need to disengage twice even!

Well since he can stand up for a cost of zero jog in that situation (5 - Grit 6 +1 for the Assist) and the disengage doesn't cost anything until you actually move he had nearly unlimited attempts to disengage. The only thing that would stop him would be a flop since a failed disengage only results in him going down in his starting hex and standing up is free in that situation.

The solution is fairly easy in my mind, make the minimum needed one.

The only drawback I see is that it does remove a bit of flavor from teams like the Deadlings who have the skeletons and zombies who just won't stay down. I love that! So an alternative solution that retains that flavor but is a tad more complex would be to keep the rule as is but make the minimum needed 1 Jog when the player is standing up in another players front 3.

So basically a skeleton or zombie would have an effective Grit 5 for standing up, and a 6 only for injuries.
_________________
I lurk in the shadows, eying your games.
Nothing can slake me, except for your pain.
"Flop," I say gently; whispering my curse,
your bad situation just became worse.

GalakStarscraper · The Big Man Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 5310

I think I have an easier solution that to me makes a lot of sense.

You may only Stand Up once per a turn.

This would remove the problem you saw in your game Dark Lord with Mad Jackal.

Galak

Dark Lord · Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 2055

True but I kinda like the ability of my zombies to continually get back up.

"STAY DOWN!"

"Muuuhhhhhhhh..."

But actually I think yours may be the easiest solution. AND it keeps the zombies standing up for free even when guarded so that's cool.

I may suck with Deadlings but there is some satisfying in your opponents face when he says, "so you can STILL get up for free?!"

hee hee!

_________________
I lurk in the shadows, eying your games.
Nothing can slake me, except for your pain.
"Flop," I say gently; whispering my curse,
your bad situation just became worse.

SillySod · Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 68

Two players should still hold the zombie most of the time shouldnt they? With a decent tackler plus the extra success you need from the assist that zombie aint going anywhere fast. After all a flop isnt too unlikely on such an ungainly player.
_________________
Elfball is for girls...... and pigs apparently, I know which one I am :D

Dark Lord · Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 2055

GalakStarscraper · The Big Man Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 5310

And I'm willing to allow them to do that trick once to make the undead in Elfball be very different. But once I think is enough for that trick to work.

Galak

Dark Lord · Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 2055

Right. I agree.

And standing up for free is a pretty big deal in Elfball.

I'm sold.

But as far as the tournament rules go. Hmmn. That's a different story.
_________________
I lurk in the shadows, eying your games.
Nothing can slake me, except for your pain.
"Flop," I say gently; whispering my curse,
your bad situation just became worse.

Mad Jackal · Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 186

Getting up only once is the BEST solution Galak. I think you may recall I was against multiple get ups in one turn anyway....

Now we just need a ruling on preforming an action/challenge when you are out of jog and used your free action.

I still argue that deadwoods, skeletons, deervishes or any player who gets up for zero move cost, should still not be allowed to take an action to stand if they have no actions left....

IE movement all spent and free action taken to block some-one and go down.

Dark Lord · Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 2055

I disagree. That's what makes those players fun and I really don't see it as any sort of problem, and definitely not a game breaker. Watching those dead guys pop back up (just like zombies tend to do) is great fun. It also makes them a bashier player...which is what they are.

It's a slippery slope to start nerfing the bash. Especially when Deadlings suffered a myriad of casualties against Timberline Elves. IMO taking away that ability drops the bashing power slightly to the high Jog players...and they already have enough advantages.

Now, I agree that unlimited attempts to dodge away is broken for a bash team and I have seen it be unreasonable. Allowing a Zombie or Skeleton to stand back up after a slide tackle hasn't broken any games that I have seen and I would hate to see it go.

In fact I would argue that as a challenge it was more favorable to the bashy players. I loved getting my skeletons dropped because it meant I could gain momentum just for standing up! That was broken, this is not.

IMO it's just Elfball's version of Regeneration.
_________________
I lurk in the shadows, eying your games.
Nothing can slake me, except for your pain.
"Flop," I say gently; whispering my curse,
your bad situation just became worse.

GalakStarscraper · The Big Man Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 5310

If a Grit 5/6 player ends his action with zero Jog, is Down, and has not yet had to Stand Up this turn .... I'm okay with them getting the free stand up.

Galak

Mad Jackal · Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 186

Elves or no.

You give me a 4 dice shot looking for a one and I'm going to take it. Every turn. Be it tackling, shoving or passing. The odds don't get much better than 4 dice looking for a one especialy for the normal players. And you bet I'm going to hit everything within reach. My elves gave most cas for a reason.

Why? Because I saw the most backsides of players and took the shots.

Ok Galak. So if they have momemtum, they get to roll thier dash after they stand for free then ? And they can shove or move or do what ever then ?

Dark Lord · Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 2055

GalakStarscraper · The Big Man Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 5310