IMPACT! MINIATURES

Mephisto · Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 367

we enjoyed it so much, that we cannot wait to play our second game and perhaps start a league.

Friday night. I invited one of my best friends and an expert FF coach to try the game. We re-read the rules, because we read it some time before and with the rulebook aside, we started. As I haven't finished moving I only had some part of my miniatures. I played my gnolls with the original models, and he played gnomes with some blackrock dwarves and some Nergal players. We started at 00:30h and finished... 4 hours later... We are both very hard players...

Some thoughs:

1) There has to be some turn limitations. The card idea is very useful I think.
2) Momentum is great. We especially used the get up to get some momentums. We didn't risk very much, because we rolled a lot of flops... I think this was the main reason why we payed so long, because we flopped so much.
3) I think I read somewhere that Elfball was not a very "bloody" game... I lost 5 of my 10 players mainly because of the contraptions...
4) We realized how important facing is and that you can either play Elfball with the typical FF tactics, neither trying to oneturn. Still thinking how the best way is.
5) I did not like the gnolls especially. But perhaps is because I lost and I was very upset for not having being able to play well...
6) I am thinking which would be the best team for me. I like Elves (Timberline Elves, because I think Night Elves do not have a nice team) more because of its background, but for gaming style I am seriously considering Siringit. Middle Kingdoms can be another option, too.

So, what do you think? Can you give me some hints or feedback please?

Thx

GalakStarscraper · The Big Man Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 6408

Mad Jackal · Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 251

1) I had one match go only 20 minutes as well.

I do very much enjoy a match when you have two [intelligent] coaches who just play with nearly the first thought that comes to mind. That is intense. And quick.

Almost like a 2 minute per turn timer. :)
2) Excessive Flopping does tend to drag games out.
As does tactics which do not move the ball across the goal line.
I recomend rolling more 4 dice challenges and also cycling the ball to keep it in the hands of some-one who can move. Even 3 dice challenges tend to flop "too much". You can also use the move two people at a time optional rule.

3) As for bloody.

I've been saying that since day 1. There is a lot of violence in Elfball. Most of it deadly. The leagues that have been crying it's too soft have not been playing the games vs me or my mates. (and probably throwing less tackle 4 tackles.)

I had 3 demo tests in row where at least 8 of the 12 players (both teams of 6)were taken off the pitch. The first one ended in my snow troll alone taking on 4 pharohs and scoring. (After making 4 separate pick up rolls.)

4) Facing is crucial. Increasing your skill in selecting facing will reduce your injuries taken.
5) I am not a gnoll player either. The safeties speed just 'isn't enough' for me, especially at the cost of skill.
6) I have always said that finding the best team for your style is important. Have you tried to play with all players as midfielders? You'll quickly find out what attributes you are missing on your players.
For example I won't play a team (seriously) without at least 2 hunters or two defenders on the pitch. Divine Wind are right up my alley. As are the Timberline Elves. That said, if you field both Hunters and at least 1 striker on the pitch, the Night Elves are actually not a bad team to play.... Without the Hunters I would not touch it except when forced to demo with it. :)

glad you enjoyed it though.
_________________
A wise man once said.
"There is a point in time that a player really should read the rulebook."

Mephisto · Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 367

For me, hunters are one of the best positionals in the game (as my experience so far). Would like to try the Widowmaker

The problem I had is that my opponent killed three of my four hunters, so I was sold. Strikers are not very useful for me. As the teams move normally 5 or 6 points, one point more is not that useful (at least for me). Tackle is far more important, skill or disengage, too.

Mad Jackal · Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 251

What is disengage?

And with the changes to the passing rules, strikers are very much less important. (especially if you carry a good thrower.)

The Valks team that won the elfball tournament last gen con fielded at least 3 Hunters I think.

Frank can verify that for me if he remembers. :)
_________________
A wise man once said.
"There is a point in time that a player really should read the rulebook."

Mephisto · Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 367

I played yesterday my second game with my same friend (we are really looking forward to teach other people the rules and organize a small league of ca 6 people). We did not end in the massacre and he managed to score (we played with turns -> 56)

We had some doubts:

1) Which hexes on the sideline are still valid?

2) Momentum: Can I use one momentum to re-roll a re-rolled dice? I mean use momentum to re-roll a momentumed dice

3) When being shoved, does the facing of your player changes or not? We supposed that not, but...

4) When you throw a pass you have to look in the direction of the target player? Can you still move after a pass? Can you change the facing direction even if you missed the pass or even if you did it alright, but you did not have any jog left?

5) When moving a player from the bench you can move three hexes. From where do you move? Do you have to move from the hexes in front of the stairs or can you move from the whole bench area?

Thx

GalakStarscraper · The Big Man Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 6408

Dark Lord · Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 2790

Mephisto · Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 367

Thanks guys!

Wouldn't it be interesting to put this graphic and another with the hexes where you can play in the rulebook. It would also be interesting to add a FAQ section with the questions posted in the forum.

Another question:

What is the utility of safeties?

Mephisto · Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 367

I still have my doubts with Elfball. It is very difficult to me figure how to play. My friend tried to go forward, a little bit in a berserk mode with the ballcarrier. He faced the risk that I could tackle him, but it seems that this is the only way. Passing is very risky and I do not see too much utility. Tried to passes with the timberline and failed both...

Can somebody tell me how you normally play?

Dark Lord · Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 2790

Short passes are the key, IMO.

I generally play as if I had possession even if I don't. I position my players so I can do 2 or 3 short passes to the goal when I do have possession.

One thing about Elfball that I really enjoy over that other game is that your strategy needs to be fluid. In that other game generally teams set up in formations and run a pattern, but in Elfball it's more like Basketball or Rugby where your positional players have adjust to the situation on a turn by turn basis.

The ball can turn over in an instant so you should always been in scoring position. I generally play with Black Widows. I like their good mix of positions coupled with the threat that the Widowmaker imposes.
My set up usually looks like this:

1. Widowmaker
2. Hunter
3. Midfielder/Thrower
4. Midfielder
5. Striker
6. Striker/Hunter
The lines represent the general path I will be taking with the players. This is by no means a rock solid route or pattern I will run. It's got many variables like the team I'm against, the current situation and the general health of my team. This is very abstract, so keep that mind if you feel a need to nitpick it.

Generally I feel like this is the optimal position for my players to be in.

#'s 5 & 6 are scoring threats. #4 can reach 5&6 or 2&3 to help out when needed. 2 & 3 can both defend the goal and serve as a means to get the ball across the white line, and #1 the Widowmaker sits and waits like a spider in a web for anyone to get close.

In the top pics the lines bow inward not as a rigid description of the hexes they follow but rather to illustrate that they work as a team to get where they are going.
4,5, 6 are my offense squad, and 2,3 & 4 are my defensive squad. 5 & 6 don't hang out there waiting for a ball to come, because they would get clobbered. It's more of a general note of their area of action. I can get a player to any other player who is in trouble in 1 turn. I can have 3 on Offense and 2 and Defense (not counting the goal tender) or within 1 turn I can switch it to 2 on O and 3 on D.
In fact, within 2 turns I could potentially have a full court press if I needed to force a turn over and lock up the opposing offense.

The other thing this strategy does, is drive any offensive play from my opponent to the outsides. Since my Widows are tacklers (Widowmaker excepted) I use pushes out of bounds as much as I can...and lookie lookie, I just happen to have a midfielder hanging around the center dot.

So like I said, I play this way whether I have the ball or not. If the opponent has the ball I do everything I can to passively make him drop it somewhere around midfield. If I am in optimal position, and he drops the ball at midfield I can scoop it up, do a short pass to one of my scoring threats and hopefully lay a zone on his goal tender in one turn. Then on the next turn, score.
(With skills this becomes easier too)
If I do have possession I keep in in my backfield until I am ready to do a series of short passes. In optimal position with #3 holding the ball he can advance, hand it to #4, pass it to 5&6 or if desperate just chuck it down field for a punt.

There's also some good things for Bl00d B0wlers to remember during play:
Pushing is better than Tackling in most cases. If you only want to remove an opponent's tackle zone then a push is much safer and more likely to build momentum than a tackle will.
Tackling is for hitting the player holding the ball. Pushing is what you do to an annoying opponent. Pay attention to facing. Hitting a player from behind can make the difference between both down, and only you down.
And then, many times a better strategy is to cover the ball carrier to force a fumble rather than knocking him over. Hitting a player with the ball takes an point of jog to tackle, a point of jog to move to wherever the ball bounces, a point of jog to pick it up and another point of jog to do something with it...better to let the fickle dice screw him over when he tries to do something and then capitalize on it.

Do not end a player's turn still holding the ball. Play HOT POTATO! At the end of a players action he should be getting rid of the ball. Tossing the ball in a region unoccupied by your opponent is better than holding on to it! If you remain in possession of the ball the other coach gets two turns to come after you to pop it loose! And as you have seen getting the ball loose is not hard.

Momentum's importance cannot be stressed enough. Knowing how to manipulate that aspect of the game is vital to victory. Push the player before you tackle him to earn a momentum, for example.

Also, lots of people I have played with have thought that the attrition bash game is the way to go. Here's the thing, it's real easy to mess up a coach with that mentality. If you are playing against a team that is gonna try to bash you around until you are out players...just pull back.
Let him have the ball whether you win the face off or not. Pull back into your half just out of his reach. He can only bring one player across your line at a time, and when he you get to move two players before he can move that guy again. HIT HIM! Pick them off one at a time with your biggest tackle player and support. The heavy hitting teams aren't great at ball handling and/or movement so once they are down to 4 players or so they are EASY to score on. I've used this tactic with my Black widows against Samhaino, Dwarves, Siringit, Middle Kingdoms and Valkyries and it works. The attrition game is not so aggressive in my league anymore.
And don't be afraid of those monster players. The Impact Challenge is tough, but once you make it it's Tackle Vs. Dodge...and that's not so good for them!
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duttydave · Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:42 pm Post subject:

Dark Lord · Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 2790

pauman · Joined: 31 Aug 2009 Posts: 4

Hi, I'm Mephisto's opponent.

mephisto haven't told anything about rosters.

first game he played with gnolls (3 hunters,1 midfielder, 1 safety, and 1 striker... i think) an all-around roster, to test everything. I played with gnomes (3 contraptions, and 3 gnomes). Even he won the face-off and started picking up the ball, I tackled his player and made it mine. It was quite difficult to move forward with jog 5, so the game became a mess, and it was very long (4 hours more or less). It ended when my contraptions killed all his players.

We just learned the rules. there's not much to say about the match.

in the second game he played with timeberline elves (3 dryads, 1 hunter, 1 thorower, and 1 striker), and I played razorbacks (2 swinetaurs, and 4 hunters). too much brute force? maybe. or maybe not. I picked up the ball with a swinetaur, and I tried to go forward but far from mephistos's hunter. with jog 6, might 4 and dodge 4, It was absolutely impossible for mephisto, to tackle my swinetaur. The game could have been really fast, but I flopped when I didn't need to tackle at all. Anyway, later, I ended scoring with a swinetaur because mephisto couldn't tackle it. Even he brought to play his second hunter.

and these are my conclusions:
- mephisto was absolutely inconscious to play with just one tackler. That's why I won the game.
- my team lacked of skill, but the only skill roll I had to do was a pick-up challenge (and I just need one success).
- I love tackle.
- strikers and throwers have to be in the bench until you control the ball.
- I should have played with a midfilder, to do the face-off chanllege, and try to pick up the ball.
- dryads and swinetaurs are quite good ball carriers.

and if I have to sort these 4 teams, the one I've most liked is razorbacks, gnolls, gnomes, and at last, timberland.

Mephisto · Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 367

Pauman has a "unusal" way of playing. But he is right about the rosters. We both aknowledge that hunters (tacklers) are important.

Pau, TIMBERLAND?